43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Mon May 11, 2020 10:30 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:40 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:35 pm
...And that's why I didn't think about the most powerful levers, which should be used on f[XEQ] and g[XEQ]...
I was already thinking of XEQ: f[XEQ] does automatic XEQ ALPHA.
FN1 (f[XEQ]) (Function 1) and FN2 (g[XEQ]) (Function 2), predefined or freely configurable assignments, similar to those available for Σ+ in WP43C, i.e. independent of USER MODE. This is a tip for the person who is going to build the app for this purpose.


Was not double click XEQ intended for XEQ ALPHA? In between I lose the overview.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon May 11, 2020 10:57 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:30 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:40 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:35 pm
...And that's why I didn't think about the most powerful levers, which should be used on f[XEQ] and g[XEQ]...
I was already thinking of XEQ: f[XEQ] does automatic XEQ ALPHA.
FN1 (f[XEQ]) (Function 1) and FN2 (g[XEQ]) (Function 2), predefined or freely configurable assignments, similar to those available for Σ+ in WP43C, i.e. independent of USER MODE. This is a tip for the person who is going to build the app for this purpose.


Was not double click XEQ intended for XEQ ALPHA? In between I lose the overview.
I was thinking of that too, but after the recent discussion of the XEQM, I though of making a RadioButton config choice to determine double tap XEQ function: 1:XEQ ALPHA, 2.XEQMENU.

Double click later. It is easy to do with existing code. I am still busy with coding the text file config for XEQMENU (and as H2X suggested, maybe the text file config works well for the fixed 3 screens of the HOME menu too. I think that will be sweet.). The code is coming along nicely.

Double tap XEQ:
To prevent the double tap time delay, the first tap must always execute, regardless, then the second function must be launched when double click is detected, like CLX/DROP/CLSTK - CLX is done any way, and both later functions operate after CLX - result is no perceivable delay.
So,
  • Choice 1 (default) will be XEQ ALPHA. That is easy, XEQ stays first function. And when you want XEQ ALPHA, you double click, it launches ALPHA after XEQ was launched.
  • Choice 2 will be XEQMENU. But that swaps. That means the first function must be XEQM, not XEQ. So the first press brings up the XEQM menu, and the second tap retracts the menu and launches the XEQ function/menu. Seems inefficient, but will be effective.
  • Do you think there must be a NO-double-tap option? I don't think so. Like CLX/DROP. Simple - don't double tap if you don't like it ;-)
  • Do you think there should be a long press to launch FN1 regardless of which softmenu is selected? That sounds nice.(Of course I am trying to find more use for the code already done for CLX/DROP/CLSTK on backspace.)
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Mon May 11, 2020 11:14 pm

My mistake, I should not have introduced Function 1 and Function 2, if Function 1..6 already exists.

Longpress on XEQ, have to sleep on it. But why not.

I hadn't quite understood XEQM yet, I'll read this part of the thread again.
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Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue May 12, 2020 6:24 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:57 pm
... I am still busy with coding the text file config for XEQMENU (and as H2X suggested, maybe the text file config works well for the fixed 3 screens of the HOME menu too. I think that will be sweet.)...
I explain you how I have understood XEQM. There is a file or several files which can be prepared on a PC. You can store 18 RPN programs in it. Or maybe more. Does the program parser already exist? Are these programs independent of the programming model the WP43S will receive? Will it be possible to call these programs via XEQ ALHPA? I don't know the WP-34S, so these questions can be strange.

I think H2X thought it would be a bit simpler, but this is more complicated. Basically, you can imagine that you "only" store the key codes in the menu table, the 'item'. But if you don't know the numbers of the item, it becomes difficult. Then you would have to have a utility program on your PC to select and place the functions. Possibly not only limited in the menu, but also some of the f/g-shift keys.

Guys, you are way too fast for me. But this is my personal problem.

What does XEQM do, does it open the last loaded file with the 18 menu entries into the menu? Will this menu remain in the menu stack? Does it leave with EXIT? Is the file browser to load the configuration an additional command?

How does it fit together with MyMenü?

I agree to have configuration options. You can already use RadioButton/Checkbox to determine whether pressing the shift key for a very long time opens the HOME menu. I'm not sure if I want to have this freedom of choice for double tab XEQ. I think I would rather imagine it when calling HOME (f[ 7 ]) / XEQM (f[ 7 ]).

Since I'm confident that I can't slow you down, I took the liberty of sharing my concerns.


Regardless of this discussion, I think if I were to make an app with my thought experiment, which I certainly am not doing at the moment, I think the logical position for ALPHA is on f[XEQ]. (Hidden clue.) Which would have a big impact on the whole layout.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue May 12, 2020 8:23 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 6:24 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:57 pm
... I am still busy with coding the text file config for XEQMENU (and as H2X suggested, maybe the text file config works well for the fixed 3 screens of the HOME menu too. I think that will be sweet.)...
There is a file or several files which can be prepared on a PC. You can store 18 RPN programs in it. Or maybe more.
Currently the thinking is to start with a single file, which has the sole purpose of defining 18 labels X_P1 to X_g6.
Currently it has a fixed file name, but later, once it can be figured out how to do the file browser, you can select the file. You could have different files in /PROGRAMS/.
Does the program parser already exist?
Yes, I did that this week.
Are these programs independent of the programming model the WP43S will receive?
Yes.

It does NOT share the 43S programming space (which does not yet exist in the code).
It is not a programming space, even though it can sequence a few commands for convenience and if the official programming model will be accessible, I will change it to accommodate that.
Will it be possible to call these programs via XEQ ALHPA?
No. Not while the index of items is working as it does.
The 18 items are simply called X_P1 in the index of items, but I will not include "X_P1" in the catalog.
The custom display will translate X_P1 to say DIAMTR, or SIDES, or FUEL or whatever "name" you give it in the text file.
I don't know the WP-34S, so these questions can be strange.
These are good questions and the answers have nothing to do with the 34S.
I think H2X thought it would be a bit simpler, but this is more complicated. Basically, you can imagine that you "only" store the key codes in the menu table, the 'item'.
The main purpose is to have a PC file based launcher menu, to group programs.
If later, the 43S MyMenu system becomes PC file based, I will probably retire this system. Or if they have a text file based LOAD/SAVE file to store all settings including MyMenu, then we do not need separate file menu configs. Somehow I doubt it though, so until then, I have a XEQ menu.
But if you don't know the numbers of the item, it becomes difficult. Then you would have to have a utility program on your PC to select and place the functions.
One way would be do do a Excel lookup for the codes, but as you say that becomes complicated. Currently, my parser/launcher looks for either the NAME or the CODE. I also have a macro recorder at the moment, which helps to start a text file faster.

Here is an example of what the parser currently reads as my test program. White space is ignored, so you can space it vertically or horizontally. Codes are not necessary, I do the decoding in my parser, but it is debatable if really all the codes must be in the minimal parser:

Code: Select all

TICKS  X<>Y  "2" EXIT  X<>Y  Y^X  "1" -  NPRIME  X<>Y  TICKS  X<>Y  -  "10.0" / RETURN
Here is an example of what the recorder currently writes (to another file on the drive). It writes the code and a comment with the name:

Code: Select all

  622 //     TICKS//
  780 //         -//
 "1" 
 "." 
 "6" 
  148 //   ENTER##//
   84 //       CLX//
  127 //    DROP##//
 1523 //      EXIT//
Possibly not only limited in the menu, but also some of the f/g-shift keys.
I did not include calling softmenus or shifts. I must still add the possibility to call a menu name.
What does XEQM do, does it open the last loaded file with the 18 menu entries into the menu? Will this menu remain in the menu stack? Does it leave with EXIT?
I don't know these answers. I was thinking to have one of the 18 items in this menu something like "LOADFILE", after which it will remember the last file name selected. I was thinking that it is a "normal" menu, going into the menu stack.
Is the file browser to load the configuration an additional command?
The file browser will be to change the file name to another file, i.e. another 18 commands in a menu.
How does it fit together with MyMenü?
At the moment it does not interact with MyMenu. Except that MyMenu is just another standard menu with a code, that can be called from X_P1 or whatever.
Regardless of this discussion, I think if I were to make an app with my thought experiment, which I certainly am not doing at the moment, I think the logical position for ALPHA is on f[XEQ]. (Hidden clue.) Which would have a big impact on the whole layout.
Duplication of ALPHA on the keyboard is possible in your thought experiment of course!
Maybe I do a KEYS profile for your thought experiment!
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue May 12, 2020 10:26 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:23 pm
Does the program parser already exist?
Yes, I did that this week.
Are these programs independent of the programming model the WP43S will receive?
Yes.

It does NOT share the 43S programming space (which does not yet exist in the code).
It is not a programming space, even though it can sequence a few commands for convenience and if the official programming model will be accessible, I will change it to accommodate that.
Thanks.

Exciting. Now I have an idea how the expansion will be realized. I think it's about time I should have took another look into the code. A lot has happened on all ends.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Wed May 13, 2020 12:33 am

Dani R. wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:26 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:23 pm
Does the program parser already exist?
Yes, I did that this week.
Are these programs independent of the programming model the WP43S will receive?
Yes.

It does NOT share the 43S programming space (which does not yet exist in the code).
It is not a programming space, even though it can sequence a few commands for convenience and if the official programming model will be accessible, I will change it to accommodate that.
Thanks.

Exciting. Now I have an idea how the expansion will be realized. I think it's about time I should have took another look into the code. A lot has happened on all ends.
Great. A lot did happen.
The Program-Menu branch is on gitlab, but the branch is not ready for testing yet. The status is the parser is running. There must happen a bit of cleanup still and a bug or two I know of. It is hard to test the parser if you don’t know which keys are used, because the test XEQ menu buttons aren’t labelled yet.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue May 19, 2020 4:06 pm

I have another swap on the keyboard to propose...
.
Clipboard01.png
Clipboard01.png (40.23 KiB) Viewed 181 times
.
I found that working on the 43C on my DM42 (without the blue labels), that I incorrectly gravitate towards g[LOG] for the [.d] function (to convert a number to REAL type). Maybe it is because of the proximity of the 10 in yellow, and LOG in white, on that button.

Maybe it will be different when all the blues are visible, like on the simulator, but the point is that if it is more intuitive without the label, it is also better, even when the label comes.

We are almost at a freeze for the prototype, so we do have time for a very last, last change ... (famous last words ...)

How does swapping .ms and .d sound, with .d indeed next to 10^x ??
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

rprosperi
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by rprosperi » Tue May 19, 2020 4:52 pm

Makes good sense since that key is also Alpha "D", an additional mnemonic to help out.
--bob p

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Tue May 19, 2020 5:22 pm

Good idea. Make it happen.
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