43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Walter » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:42 pm

Looks like I'm also forced to repeate myself:
Walter wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:56 pm
... feel free to post whatever wishlists you may have. I simply try to tell what looks viable to me within the (physical, economical, etc.) boundary conditions given. If you don't concur, please try to convince me. And if you don't succeed, try harder. :)

And if you have any questions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to ask. And if I misunderstood your questions or didn't get your points, keep asking.

The worst thing that can happen to you is I've to tell you that your issue was discussed earlier already.
Since the 43S is more than 7 years old, quite many topics were discussed earlier already (BTW, the respective thread is full of suggestions from the community being accepted - thanks to all contributors!). This may be frustrating for folks hopping on the bandwagon some 7 months ago. If those try taking control of the 43S project at this stage (you could call it hijacking) I won't allow that: it's our baby after all. Thus there's a 43C now. Different people, different preferences => different projects.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:25 pm

It's not that difficult.
Walter wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:42 pm
If those try taking control of the 43S project at this stage (you could call it hijacking) I won't allow that: it's our baby after all.
I on my part never had and never have any intention of kidnapping anyone's project. But I also don't understand at all that one could and can get this impression. But now the reactions are a bit clearer to me. Even though I still don't really understand them.

Walter wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:42 pm
Thus there's a 43C now. Different people, different preferences => different projects.
And this is a good thing.

I would still ask everyone to stop blaming the WP43C team for working their variants instead of helping to bring up the basic code base of the WP43S. I still feel the reluctant to accept contributions from the 'parasites'.
DM42 SN:00032

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:48 pm

Gentlemen!

I feel compelled to voice my concern that the 43C team may be getting undue credit for the amount of activity in this thread. Might I suggest that those of you who are not really interested in bringing the 43C project forward create your own thread for your discussions?
DM42 SN:00040 | The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 pm

Progress update, since the last report on 2020-01-13.

Progress to report is that:
  • I revamped the “difference document”,
  • I updated p1 of this forum and
  • I re-arranged some menus.
  • I am up to date with the 43S code, up to and including the Combinations function added yesterday.
  • Dani compiled the Windows simulator, and I compiled the DM42 image. See bottom for links.
HOME menu: questions at this stage:
  1. Whether someone has better HOME menu allocations?
  2. What is relevant to put into HOME 5, f(FN6)?
  3. On Layout 42B, HOME is called by the DM42 SETUP label on f[0]. Should we not maybe create a SETUP menu entry into the HOME menu, which has al the setup links in there, i.e. MODE, DISP, CFG, and a CLSTK for good measure on F3, F4, F5 and F6 respectively?
Layout: questions:
  1. Layout 1B: I do not like the current layout which does not have UNIT on g[5]. A possible solution could be:
    • PPP could go to the CFG menu.
    • Then BASE could go to g[1].
    • Then UNIT could be returned to g[5].
    • This is not needed on Layout 42B.
http://cocoon-creations.com/download/WP43S_WP43C.JPG

As previously suggested fixed HOME keys introduced about the usage of the FN keys when no menus are present and on the white marked FN keys. I added the white text above the function keys to the template, and I re-arranged the HOME menus to cycle through 5 screens. The primary (bottom) row and the g-shifted (top) row always remaining fixed and the same in all menus. The only rows changing would be those in he central (f-shifted) rows, marked in green below:
Clipboard04.png
Clipboard04.png (56.74 KiB) Viewed 277 times
HOME screens

Clipboard02b.png
Clipboard02b.png (96.91 KiB) Viewed 277 times
The HOME screen's bottom function keys line up with the white row and the f-shifted top row function of the DM42 / HP42S.


The changes to the HOME menu sequence can be summarised:
Top Row:
  • angle modes were reduced to 3 only, I.e. DEG/RAD/d.ms.
  • j added, and is sensitive to the CPXI and CPXj setting.
  • RECT/POLAR remains, complete with radio button indicating the mode.
  • remain constant over all five screens.
Bottom Row:
  • replicate the four f-shifted top row exp functions on primaries. No HP had both x^2 and sort(X) on primaries but this one does.
  • have pi and CLSTK instead of f[RND] and f[GTO] respectively.
  • is active when no menu is displayed.
  • remain constant over all five screens.
Middle Row:
  • HOME 1: Has >R and >P because Layout42B does not have blue labels showing >R and >P. This is my new context sensitive >R and >P which works differently for complex and real types.
  • HOME 1: Has || to save finding X.FN Up to get ||. And x! To save finding PROB menu.
  • HOME 1: Has |x| and angle as this is also on hidden blue labels on the Layout42B.
  • HOME 2: Has all the DISP modes handy.
  • HOME 3: SI prefixes.
  • HOME 4: Conveniently has menus, TRIG (on no key), EXP/CPX/X.FN all on blues, MyMenu (not on key) and ELEC on X.FN.
  • HOME 5: INTEGER type conversions/functions.



Notable changes made
since the last progress report on 2020-01-13 (more details are in the new last section of the differences document.).
  1. CHANGED: Numerical input GAP setting changed. It is now dynamically changing, i.e. Gap=2 for SI: HEX and BASE 4; Gap=4 for SI: BIN; Gap=3 for SI: OCT; Gap=3 for SI: DEC and for other bases. 43S does not want this.
    CHANGED the functionality of >R & >P in the HOME menu and on the keyboard as follows: If a complex number in X, it does RECT or POLAR MODE change. If not, normal >R or <P will be performed on X & Y.]
  2. .ms in CONV menu and to top row. .ms is a function in place of d.ms on g[LN]. .ms cycles and converts to either d.ms, h.ms and current angle mode. (h.ms future, as it is not yet available in 43S).
  3. Fixed FN keys when no softmenu is showing.
  4. line up the display of longints in stack and REGS.V. 43S did not confirm if they will change it like this.
  5. Activated UNDO. Activation of incomplete UNDO function code. Works well, but not implemented all over.
  6. Change name of RM to RMODE (rounding mode)
  7. Added a function RND to fit on the keyboard. This function is identical to ROUND. Retaining both ROUND in menu and RND on keyboard for now. Considering to just rename ROUND to RND.
  8. Placed RND on key f[E+].
  9. Changed the calculator default setting experimentally to: Stack 8, ALL3, LEAD0 set, CPXRES set, DANGERFLAG set.
  10. x! Increased from the limit of 450! to 1388! experimental.
  11. Increased longint length from 3328 binary digits to 15000 (4500 decimal digits). This is experimental and may well be reduced to 2500 decimal digits if needed. The previous WP43S longint maximum some time ago was set to 8192 (2450 decimal digits) before this was changed to 3328 which is 1000 digits.
  12. Changed the GRAPH Limits to display more precision and better spacing.
  13. Added a screen shot / snapshot button for the GRAPH menu, to output the produced graph to /SCREENS.
  14. Added a general screen shot button active all the time, the same way as DM42 offers it, i.e. keep shift in and tap DISP. SHIFT-DISP (standard DM42) for a sccreen shot.
  15. CLR/UNDO on Layout 1B and Layout 42B are opposite, due to the DM42 hardware having a yellow "CLEAR".
  16. Added SI prefix multiplier commands": pico, nano, micro, mille, kilo, Mega on one line of the HOME menu.
  17. Moved “s->year" and "year->s" from UNIT to CLK.

Sample data in registers:

ADDED some temporary sample data in registers 10 through 20. This is to have specific useful numbers available for testing.:
  • the sum of cubes = 42 constants to registers, for testing purposes. R14-R17
  • the sum of Cubes = 3 constants to registers, for testing purposes. R10-R13
  • To use, type: RCL11 3 [y^x] RCL12 [y^x] RCL13 [y^x] + +
  • Pi fraction to 37 digits: http://qin.laya.com/tech_projects_approxpi.html
  • To use, type: RCL19 RCL20 / to get 37 digits of pi, but only 34 will be in the REAL stack.
Clipboard03.png
Clipboard03.png (4.94 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Sample data: R20 not shown.



Downloads:

The DM42 image is http://cocoon-creations.com/download/43C_22L2.pgm.
The Windows simulator is http://cocoon-creations.com/download/WP ... -02-11.zip.
The differences document is http://cocoon-creations.com/download/WP ... s_v047.pdf.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

rprosperi
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by rprosperi » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:35 am

Amazing progress Jaymos (and Dani, et. al.), and I must say that's a bewildering document (in a good way). :D

Keep up the good work! This has come a lot further than I (and probably you) imagined at the beginning.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282
DM41X: β00071
DM10L: 071/100

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 pm
HOME menu: questions at this stage:
  1. Whether someone has better HOME menu allocations?
  2. What is relevant to put into HOME 5, f(FN6)?
  3. On Layout 42B, HOME is called by the DM42 SETUP label on f[0]. Should we not maybe create a SETUP menu entry into the HOME menu, which has al the setup links in there, i.e. MODE, DISP, CFG, and a CLSTK for good measure on F3, F4, F5 and F6 respectively?
I can't explain why exactly, but it's enough for me to have MODES and DISP on (f) keys, I wouldn't go looking for these menus in another menu.

Jaymos wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 pm
Layout: questions:
  1. Layout 1B: I do not like the current layout which does not have UNIT on g[5]. A possible solution could be:
    • PPP could go to the CFG menu.
    • Then BASE could go to g[1].
    • Then UNIT could be returned to g[5].
    • This is not needed on Layout 42B.
Agreed, I miss UNIT on g[5]. And PPP, I think, belongs to CFG.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:13 am

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 pm
I can't explain why exactly, but it's enough for me to have MODES and DISP on (f) keys, I wouldn't go looking for these menus in another menu.
OK.

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 pm
Agreed, I miss UNIT on g[5]. And PPP, I think, belongs to CFG.
Added.


I integrated the new DMCP3.17 development files. Seems to work. In my last commit on Gitlab.

I needed only 3 mods due to clashing key names which they added. I just renamed our keys KEY_UP, DOWN and EXIT.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:11 am

Awe4 some3, Jaymos!

Re. the home menus: I get your point about muscle memory, and a static unshifted row makes sense to me.

I would like to pose the question whether the upper row needs to be static. I notice that the g-shifted options are not always relevant to the "theme" of the home menu page, somewhat weakening the case for them (in my mind). Might this real estate be put to more interesting use?

I do like the concept of pageable home menus. It reminds me of 41-style overlays, but presumably with much less hassle.
Last edited by H2X on Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
DM42 SN:00040 | The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:27 am

Good idea. i think you are right - maybe it is too static now. I will give it some more thought.

I have been struggling with keeping a theme restricted to only the 6 f[FN] keys. Liberating the 6 g[FN] keys per theme will help if there now is 12.

12 may be enough to make contained themes for ‘normal’ circumstances.

Ideas for contained HOME screens with the 12 slots each are welcome.

I foresee then the primary line as is and

HOME1 as is.

HOME2 does not seem to need the trig/cpx modes on g. Maybe this group needs the SI multipliers, ||, x!, |x| and blanks for now.

HOME3 seems unnecessary as all display modes are only as far away as f[DISP]. unless we fill g[FN] with sensibly themed things, it can be killed.

HOME4 can get g filled with Some more commonly used menu items, especially knowing layout 42B has no blue labels.

HOME5 could get g replaced with SF & CF, maybe RL & RR, and RMD & MOD.

Other groups maybe?
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:37 pm

I played around with the HOME menus according to the above suggestions.
  • HOME1 as is.
  • HOME2 SI multipliers, ||, x!, |x| and blanks for now.
  • HOME3 removed.
  • HOME4 Sensible for layout 42B which has no blue labels. I don't think this menu adds value for Layout 1B. Maybe this menu should only appear if Layout 42B is active?
  • HOME5 Added SF & CF, RL & RR, and RMD & IDIV. I'm. not convinced RL and RR makes sense, but these are ideas on the table.
Ideas?

Clipboard03.png
Clipboard03.png (19.89 KiB) Viewed 110 times
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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