43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
Dani R.
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 am

Jaymos wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:12 am
Dani R. wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:35 pm
I prefere Version3 with the Chi - Kappa swap
3. I made a few changes which I want to propose:

I also prefer the C & K swap And version 3: what do you guys think of these proposed changes to 3?

- Eta moves away from F and goes to H because capital Eta (Ηη) looks like H.
- Theta moves from H to either Q (or U). I prefer Theta on Q due to the similarity of the capital Theta (Θθ).
- Phi (Φφ) either stays on U (or moves from U to Q) [or moves from U to J].
- Digamma goes to F because it looks like F. (I doubt any would ever use digamma but it is a valid archaic Greek letter in context)(I also doubt anyone would actually use x! Or hypsin, but we provide that too).
- We could use J (unused) to duplicate Epsilon and the alternate form of epsilon. (ε⍷)

Dani, if there are reasons that you chose The ones that I propose to change, please advise.

J
For the people who can spell Greek, version 3 is not intuitive, but 1 and 1A. But this won't be many...

I didn't have Digamma on my screen. Since this was originally the sixth letter, you can set it to 'F', even if it would belong to 'w'.

Your shifts don't disturb the Traditional Latin transliteration.

(Actually there would be reasons to leave Rho, Sigma, Tau, Ypsilon, Phi, Chi, Psi, Omega in this order, but then you would also have to introduce Qoppa and Sampi (Milesian numerals, three groups of nine characters each).)

So Qoppa on 'J' and Sampi on '_' (underline)?



Version 3A
1. Alpha - A | A [1]
2. Beta - B | B [2]
22. Chi - C | Ch, Kh [600]
4. Delta - D | D [4]
5. Epsilon - E | E [5]
6old. Digamma - F | w [6]
3. Gamma - G | G [3]
7. Eta - H | Ē [8]
9. Iota - I | I [10]
Qoppa - J | [90]
10. Kappa - K | C, K [20]
11. Lambda - L | L [30]
12. Mu - M | M [40]
13. Nu - N | N [50]
15. Omicron - O | O [70]
16. Pi - P | P [80]
8. Theta - Q | Th [9]
17. Rho - R | R, Rh [100]
18. Sigma - S | S [200]
19. Tau - T | T [300]
21. Phi - U | Ph [500]
23. Psi - V | Ps [700]
24. Omega - W | Ō [800]
14. Xi - X | X [60]
20. Upsilon - Y | Y, U [400]
6. Zeta - Z | Z [7]
Sampi - _ | [900]
DM42 SN:00032

Dani R.
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:22 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 am
... Digamma ...

... Qoppa ...

... Sampi ...
If version 3A is considered, you will probably still want to swap Qoppa and Theta.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:58 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:22 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 am
... Digamma ...

... Qoppa ...

... Sampi ...
If version 3A is considered, you will probably still want to swap Qoppa and Theta.
I like it! Also the swap J Q.

I will redo the emulator layout in two stages:

1. I will use 3B to populate all the existing greek letters in the existing calculator font. The unavailable letters will stay blank.

2. Then I will create new letters in the calculator fonts. Then I will populate the layout.

I will try remove all Greek letters from the normal faceplate.

I am away from my toys again on a business trip, so I’ll have step 1 done this weekend.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:41 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:58 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:22 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 am
... Digamma ...

... Qoppa ...

... Sampi ...
If version 3A is considered, you will probably still want to swap Qoppa and Theta.
I like it! Also the swap J Q.

I will redo the emulator layout in two stages:

1. I will use 3B to populate all the existing greek letters in the existing calculator font. The unavailable letters will stay blank.

2. Then I will create new letters in the calculator fonts. Then I will populate the layout.

I will try remove all Greek letters from the normal faceplate.

I am away from my toys again on a business trip, so I’ll have step 1 done this weekend.


Hi all,

So exited to present the revised Alpha screen.

I did both steps 1 and 2. The 6 additional font glyphs (Digamma, Qoppa and Sampi) were created on the 2 hour flight last night back home, and the key re-allocation done this morning.

The BONUS is that I remapped the emulator keyboard for a bonus function: The emulator keys from Dani are left as is, on the lower case PC keys (as he arranged them to fit in with Free42 Emulator).

In addition to the Free42 keys, all the upper case qwerty alphabetic keys (from PC) according to the white texts on the calculator EMULATOR are mapped as well. That means that in addition to the FREE42 layout for math, in text mode, press right shift, and type away text into the emulator. It works exceptionally well!

So in short: On the EMULATOR, you can now use either the standard mapping + numerals to type any function, or you can use the white marked alpha keys to operate the calculator in whichever mode (alpha or num) (of course it only makes sense in the alpha mode to type alpha, I just wanted to be detailed in how it works).

Just to be clear: the REAL WP43C on the DM42 has none of this marked text. You have to remember which blue texts correspond to which Greek letters.

Below the new Greek alpha layout as per rev 3B (Which is 3A + the last swap Dani proposed).

Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:08 pm

Status report and updates.


News for the week:

Most important achievement is that the Alpha input mode got finalised, or at least up to par with the main WP43S project.

The Alpha menus were located art the bottom four buttons, and a caps lock button was added, the emulator keyboard operation from the PC or MAC is much better, and it is now possible to type using the full QWERTY keyboard. Much easier now.

1. Keyboard: Layout L1A stable. L1 dumped. L2 (DM42 strict) stable.
L1 took too much effort to keep maintained, and I deleted it.
Generally I run the emulator in Layout 1A and the DM42 in Layout 2. See 630.

2. DM42 Firmware for WP43C (Layout2) compiled and available. http://cocoon-creations.com/download/43C_09L2.pgm. (Release 09, Layout 2).

3. Caps lock was necessary on a different button than the arrows, as I discovered that when a soft menu is open, you cannot shift the case for alpha input as the arrows are hijacked for the menu system. This is remnant from the main project. The solution was add a single "C" on f shift SIN, which toggles the case (the case status is top right of the status line, i.e. A or a). See 626.

4. The emulator keyboard: A novel way of splitting the emulator keyboard one pc and full keyboard typing into the text input screen of the emulator. See 627.

Status report:
Using the same number system as previously. As usual, all previous DONE's disappeared, and many old outstanding points disappeared:

DONE

604. DONE. Cannot. Not any more. Menu placed here.
Text mode: g[0] & g[-] is duplicated. No text is on g[+]. We can add some alpha letters.

614. DONE. Decide which Alpha keys are to be on the front of emulator. And on the Text input screen.

615. DONE. Determine greek letters on physical layout.

625. DONE. TAM mode disappears after 4 sec

626. DONE. Added C on SIN key, used in Text Input Mode. This is for CAPS Lock. This is added, because when a menu is on the screen, the up/down arrow keys meant for that, cannot change case.

627. DONE. Emulator keys make use of the RIGHT-shift together with all 26+9 alpha and number keys, except 8 (which is shift-multiply)

In addition to the a, v, q, o, … letters used for keyboard control, there is now
Capital SHFT-A through SHFT-Z which are mapped to the emulator “A” through “Z”. SHIFT-1 through SHIFT-0 on the keyboard is mapped to the emulator 1 through 0 (except 8).

628. DONE. Add the menus on g[0] g[.] g[r/s] & g[+].
α α° αMATH αINT

629. Changed the OSX compile batch files to produce WP43C instead of WP43S. Changed the date of the DM42 image.

630. Remove the old Layout 1 completely. I have not maintained it for a few weeks and I can’t maintain it. Unnecessary effort to make sure I don’t break those ifdef’s. It is gone.


TODO: moved to Issues on Gitlab:

204. Check which functions are missing on the main project’s menus and decide if certain functions are to be added to menus. Big job - no time for that now.

218. Fix 43S to 43C name in DMCP compile for DM42 image, this is the text when you load the DM42 program.


TODO:

307. CUST2. To request from main project.
Dani suggested. Creation of CUST1 & CUST2 menu. The MyMenu and ASN functionality seems to be exactly what Dani wants. The problem is there is only one MyMenu.
JM to write feature change request to Walter.

316. Change TAM input screen to have a better menu, somehow. Not clear how. Possibly include BASE menu in TAM screen for base shortcuts and WS shortcuts.

323. Write a function so that CC, # & WSINT key function can be run from softmenus.

603. Verify SLS_xxx in items.c for all changed items.

605. Sigfig: maybe change “SIGFIG” to “SIG”.
https://youtu.be/8qLSUk78oEg

622. Hex, Dec, Oct, Bin #..
#B still doesn’t work. It should if D and H works.
#O could work for octal in the HP43C.

623. Find place for >DP and >SP in menu

624. BASE: add # and A-F.
# in menu does not do FF#16 but 15 works and H works.

631. Next item


WAITING Unchanged from last week, not copied.


The following images all are of the emulator, i.e. Layout 1A, illustrating the Numerical (NIM), Alpha (AIM) and TAM input screens. The TAM is used for RCL, STO and Base change #.

Image
LEFT: LAYOUT 1A; MIDDLE TAM input # BASE; RIGHT ALPHA input
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Patrick
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 3:30 pm
Location: Canada

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Patrick » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:49 pm

First of all, thank you very much for adding the files to a git, it's very convenient. Also, after loading the pgm file in the DM42, if I want to know the battery level, in Info menu, I get as result -NaN999... . I get a valid result using the last emulator.
Unit SN: 00044

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Jaymos
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:20 pm

Patrick wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:49 pm
First of all, thank you very much for adding the files to a git, it's very convenient. Also, after loading the pgm file in the DM42, if I want to know the battery level, in Info menu, I get as result -NaN999... . I get a valid result using the last emulator.
Hi Patrick,

Source management is the only way forward ;-) I find it amazing to guard against code going missing if an individual disappears.

I checked DM42 now - same error: NaN999...
I did not fiddle with that code, so I expect it to be in the main project.
I updated my source from theirs Git since as well, so it could be there.

My procedure when spotting something unusual is to first do the experiment on the main project WP43S, in this case, load their latest image it into the DM42, and try the same experiment. I have to make sure it is my code or their code, as they do not support my code, but only theirs.

Here is the latest WP43S that I compiled right now:http://cocoon-creations.com/download/43S_0908.pgm

Begin your test with [TAN][<--][g][FN6][3] which is RESET. Then using a printed screen shot of their key map, do the experiment, in your case now [TAN][Up][TAN][.] and [COS][FN6] for battery. I did it right now and I find the same NAN result, so it is not my code.

If you find this is not working, please report it on the "43 News" list. I would like if someone else also posts a fault report, and not only me.
Martin reads that and has responded on many of my fault reports.


Best
Jaco
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:25 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:20 pm
Patrick wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:49 pm
First of all, thank you very much for adding the files to a git, it's very convenient. Also, after loading the pgm file in the DM42, if I want to know the battery level, in Info menu, I get as result -NaN999... . I get a valid result using the last emulator.
Hi Patrick,

Source management is the only way forward ;-) I find it amazing to guard against code going missing if an individual disappears.

I checked DM42 now - same error: NaN999...
I did not fiddle with that code, so I expect it to be in the main project.
I updated my source from theirs Git since as well, so it could be there.

My procedure when spotting something unusual is to first do the experiment on the main project WP43S, in this case, load their latest image it into the DM42, and try the same experiment. I have to make sure it is my code or their code, as they do not support my code, but only theirs.

Here is the latest WP43S that I compiled right now:http://cocoon-creations.com/download/43S_0908.pgm

Begin your test with [TAN][<--][g][FN6][3] which is RESET. Then using a printed screen shot of their key map, do the experiment, in your case now [TAN][Up][TAN][.] and [COS][FN6] for battery. I did it right now and I find the same NAN result, so it is not my code.

If you find this is not working, please report it on the "43 News" list. I would like if someone else also posts a fault report, and not only me.
Martin reads that and has responded on many of my fault reports.


Best
Jaco

Did I say how much easier it is to use Layout2 on the DM42 instead of the original WP43S ?? I might have mentioned it ... ;-) I feel rather out of sorts and it feels rather upside down.

I think this layout L2 without stickers, and the proper L1A layout, is rather amazing. Thanks to all the teamwork here.


J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Patrick
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 3:30 pm
Location: Canada

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Patrick » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:25 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:20 pm
Patrick wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:49 pm
First of all, thank you very much for adding the files to a git, it's very convenient. Also, after loading the pgm file in the DM42, if I want to know the battery level, in Info menu, I get as result -NaN999... . I get a valid result using the last emulator.
Hi Patrick,

Source management is the only way forward ;-) I find it amazing to guard against code going missing if an individual disappears.

I checked DM42 now - same error: NaN999...
I did not fiddle with that code, so I expect it to be in the main project.
I updated my source from theirs Git since as well, so it could be there.

My procedure when spotting something unusual is to first do the experiment on the main project WP43S, in this case, load their latest image it into the DM42, and try the same experiment. I have to make sure it is my code or their code, as they do not support my code, but only theirs.

Here is the latest WP43S that I compiled right now:http://cocoon-creations.com/download/43S_0908.pgm

Begin your test with [TAN][<--][g][FN6][3] which is RESET. Then using a printed screen shot of their key map, do the experiment, in your case now [TAN][Up][TAN][.] and [COS][FN6] for battery. I did it right now and I find the same NAN result, so it is not my code.

If you find this is not working, please report it on the "43 News" list. I would like if someone else also posts a fault report, and not only me.
Martin reads that and has responded on many of my fault reports.


Best
Jaco

Did I say how much easier it is to use Layout2 on the DM42 instead of the original WP43S ?? I might have mentioned it ... ;-) I feel rather out of sorts and it feels rather upside down.

I think this layout L2 without stickers, and the proper L1A layout, is rather amazing. Thanks to all the teamwork here.


J
Hi Jaco,

You're absolutely right, I should have checked where the error was and post the message in the appropriate thread. I updated the files of the initial project and compiled everything to realize that the error is present. I'll report this bug to the team.
I agree with you that it is a pleasure to use the original DM42 keyboard without the need for a multitude of stickers spread all over the keyboard. Although I fully respect those who would prefer to get a new calculator, on my side, I would rather use the one I already have.

What a great initiative you had!

Best regards,

Patrick
Unit SN: 00044

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Jaymos
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:01 am

TwoWeims wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:05 am
I have found some thinner material for a possible keyboard overlay for the DM42.
It is styrene sheet 0.20mm thick. My HP-41CV Overlay that came with the calculator measures 0.30mm thick.
This material cuts very cleanly on the laser so it will look very professional.

The samples shown in the photo are white but it comes in black also. I had white scraps in stock so I used it for experimentation.

The only problem is this is still too thick to fit in the slots on the side of the DM42 keyboard...
Any thinner and the durability may suffer.

2019-09-08 19.44.47.6410.jpg

Hi Twoweims

The cut material looks great.

I wonder what material thickness is meant to go into the slots?

Have you tried to see what thickness material does fit into the slots? I suppose the slots are too small to use a feeler gauge. Mine wouldn’t fit any way due to the ‘feelers’ being rounded.

Maybe a rectangular carrier with tabs, like a frame, of 0,1 mm material that can be epoxied to the back of the cut styrene template? At 0.1 + 0.2 mm the thickness would be ok. Ideal would be one material without glueing.

I do worry about too thin material not being durable.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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