43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:48 pm
I would not like to see it on g [ENTER] to find a menu. If at all, the menu CPX would be the best choice for me. This would free the position g[x<>y]. Or there is another direct function besides DROP and FILL which you would like to execute on the stack and which can got to g[ENTER].
CPX to g[ENTER] and BASE to g[x<>y] sounds very good.

So I get PPP back next to ASN where it belongs. And UNIT next to CONV where it belongs. And I like BASE with the four blue menus in the same line. Love it.

And I agree to swapping # and x√y.

I will create a mockup for the forum tonight.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. »

Maybe EXP on g[x<>y] and BASE on g[CHS], UNIT already comes back to g [5].
PPP back to g[1], why not. 1) We need a more understandable abbreviation. 2) It is quite possible that a more important menu comes to our mind, but until then the position is occupied by PPP.
DM42 SN:00032
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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X »

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:02 am
Walter wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:03 pm
What's the meaning of the coloured angles at COS and TAN? Certainly no reference to the WP43S...
Rev 48 of my differences document p20 discusses all the shift related differences, and item 6 in particular deals with the optional USER mode package that changes SIN, COS and TAN buttons to TRIG, f and g respectively.

Fact 1: We are challenged with one shift key only, with various ways to ease operation like double and long presses, etc.
Fact 2: We do not always use trigonometry.

So we came up with the concept of having an optional USER mode, where SIN becomes the TRIG menu, and COS and TAN becomes f and g. This was done and included in the emulator months ago. For long have I pondered the problem of how to indicate the use of f and g as we do not change the actual keys of the DM42. And the solution came when 43S received the borders around the shift keys. I like the concept and as you may remember had positive criticism for those on 43S too.
I haven't immersed myself in this particular feature earlier, as I am totally happy with how the single shift key + various double and long press options is working so far (no surprise), and haven't had any reason to explore alternatives.

What I notice is that being able to reassign these keys to work as shift keys seems to make the WP43C overlay compatible with the WP43S, which might also make programs interchangeable between them - although more reassignments would of course be needed to be fully compatible.

This does however render the original shift key redundant while in this USER mode. This begs the question if the original shift key shold be eligible for other interesting assignments while being relieved of its primary responsibility. Of course, there must be a sure-fire way to exit that USER mode.

Any thoughts?
DM42 #40 running C43 | DM41X #50 | various HP models
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.
Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. »

H2X wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:20 pm
This does however render the original shift key redundant while in this USER mode. This begs the question if the original shift key shold be eligible for other interesting assignments while being relieved of its primary responsibility. Of course, there must be a sure-fire way to exit that USER mode.

Any thoughts?
No, no, no! :twisted: The triple click function to open the HOME menu will still be available. At some point, the brain's (my?) ability to remember what you find when and how on which button is exhausted. Now to look for an additional complication, how to use this supposedly wasted key for another exotic functionality, seems to me to be far-fetched. The Shift key is in good hands there, it belongs there, the whole thing is thought through to the end. :mrgreen:

Before that, I support the proposal to add the extended functionality of SHOW to the VIEW function, which would relieve SHOW of the need to scroll through the numeric registers. 8-)


The layout police
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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X »

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:42 pm
The Shift key is in good hands there, it belongs there, the whole thing is thought through to the end. :mrgreen:
So thought I, right until I became aware of the USER mode with the S style shifts... Are they still warranted? Was my guess about layout compatibility correct? Am I missing something?

They don't bother me, I am just a curious spirit. :D
DM42 #40 running C43 | DM41X #50 | various HP models
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.
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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X »

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:45 pm
CPX to g[ENTER]
Happy with that! :-)
DM42 #40 running C43 | DM41X #50 | various HP models
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

H2X wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:52 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:45 pm
CPX to g[ENTER]
Happy with that! :-)
.
Let's try this arrangement?
.
IMG_3563a.png
IMG_3563a.png (25.73 KiB) Viewed 2202 times
.
.
On this pic, changes on g[1/x], g[sqrt], g[ENTER], g[x<>y], g[CHS]. And of course g[1]=PPP and g[5]=UNIT discussed before, not on the pic.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X »

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:32 pm
g[1/x], g[ENTER]
Nailed!
DM42 #40 running C43 | DM41X #50 | various HP models
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

H2X wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:50 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:42 pm
The Shift key is in good hands there, it belongs there, the whole thing is thought through to the end. :mrgreen:
So thought I, right until I became aware of the USER mode with the S style shifts... Are they still warranted? Was my guess about layout compatibility correct? Am I missing something?

They don't bother me, I am just a curious spirit. :D
Hi H2X

Your reference to "to make the WP43C overlay compatible with the WP43S, which might also make programs interchangeable between them" makes me think that you refer to the HP style keyboard mapping for programmability, which would be deemed broken if the keys do not correspond between calculators. Is that what you referred to or am I missing it?

I cannot say for sure yes or no to that, as I do not know how the programming steps will be stored proceed. That is not in 43S code as yet. I doubt that key locations will be used to store program steps like the old HPs did. The reason that I say that is the ASN & USER mode that the 43S will also have, would break existing programs if you re-assign keys after the programs would be captured. I really don't think they will do that. I think the programming steps will be stored rather as the unique function codes, which are the same in 43C and 43S, except for that additional function I added. But, I do not speak authoritatively, I simply don't know.

Either way, the introduction of these separate f and g keys in USER mode was not done to maintain programming compatibility, rather to offer yet another way of accessing the f and g shifts from an interactive user experience point of view. Personally I love it on the emulator, where the actual keys are changed. With my new template, I hope to be able to report back if the yellow and blue borders work as well in USER mode "U SHFT".

I strongly believe more options to access the same things in the calculator are good. In the same way I offer multiple ways of accessing functions, like the HOME menu gives different access to the same functions arranged by functional type menus, like CPX, EXP, BASE, ...., also like the white no menu keys on top. In the end I like those options to enable you to use whichever way that suits you best. I repeat most functions on keyboard also in menus, where 43S in most (if not all) cases does not repeat functions on the keyboard in menus: Think of their square, square root, DROP, etc.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

H2X wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:03 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:32 pm
g[1/x], g[ENTER]
Nailed!
I actually like this a lot more. Well done Dani!
And I thought the layout was stable ...

I now ended off the Layout 1B in the code and tagged it as such in GitLab, after changing g[1] and g[5] to exactly how inautilus' layout is, so we have a revision to test the template with.

I then moved on in the code, and renamed the layouts 1C and 42C with the newest changes.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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