43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:49 pm

Status report and photo updates, document update.


News for the week:

A lot happened behind the scenes this week. Most important achievement is that the changed code is not travelling over the internet in zip files any more, but everything is safely on the Gitlab versioning system. I am very happy that this is done. Thanks to Dani for the support in getting the system working.

1. Keyboard: Layout L1A stable. L1 depreciated. L2 (DM42 strict) stable.

2. All source code successfully transferred to Gitlab into a cloned/forked tree from WP43S: https://gitlab.com/Jaymos/wp43c.

3. All main project WP43S code updates incorporated.

4. DM42 Firmware for WP43C L2 compiled and available on http://cocoon-creations.com/download/20 ... _WP43C.pgm.

5. Updated post 1 of this forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2216.

6. Text file of post 1 of forum on http://cocoon-creations.com/download/20 ... _Intro.txt (thanks Bob).

7. Windows emulator at http://cocoon-creations.com/download/WP ... -09-01.zip.

8. Documented differences between WP43S and WP43C: http://cocoon-creations.com/download/WP ... s_v042.pdf. This includes:
- emulator images
- a mockup from inautilus of the draft layout artwork
- pictures of most all menus changed
- SIGFIG and UNITS example
- All menu and label texts that changed from WP43S
- Emulator keys changed


Status report:
Using the same number system as previously. As usual, all previous DONE's disappeared, and many old outstanding points disappeared:

DONE:

502. DONE by inautilus. Yellow and blue dots above shift button

503. DONE by inautilus. Increase contrast in text letters on the future template

504. DONE. NO. Maybe use dotted underlines for menus (for yellow and blue underline) on the future template

505. DONE by nautilus. Mark the “Y” and “N”bright white to help finding the yes/no answer to some confirmations, on the future template

207. DONE. Revisited!
Fix eRPN stack issue. No fault found.
Revisited. Fault found. Fixed.
(If you use ENTER to purposely duplicate X, SL should be enabled. Doc: to call eRPN “no ENTER stack lift”. Discovered this is no real eRPN error. The eRPN feature was not implemented fully. RPL does not duplicate X during entry.L AND It always fully terminates entry after ENTER. The latter must also be done in eRPN.)

608. DONE. Provide programmable status of eRPN, so the a program can switch it on or off. eRPN? And HOME.3? In INFO.

609. DONE. On home menu ribbons: swap CPX and TRIG for consistency in CPX.

610. DONE. Check LZON with Sigfig. Checked. No problem.

606. DONE. list all the [f] and [g] and primary label changes in the DOC.

321. DONE. Add in the MODE menu a setting to disable the shift cancel timeouts. SH_TIM and the feedback/query command SHTIM?

612. DONE. Bug: AUTODROP does not set SL !! Fixed.

613. DONE. Incorporated shading on FN buttons on emulator, similar to the shading inautilus provided for the layout.

617. DONE DOC: new emulator keys
DONE. Changed the emulator keys to correspond (mostly) with Free42 emulator key layout.

618. DONE. Swap OCT & DEC in BASE. Makes more sense base 16, 10, 8, 2 sequence.

607. DONE. Update first page entry in forum

611. DONE. Compare eRPN operation with HP30B. I just realised again that the HP30B is a pathetic little machine. Either way, eRPN works similarly.

619. DONE: DISP menu. Shift units and sigfig down to be in line with the other modes, and shift the rounding up with the other round functions.

620. DONE. Link difference document and text file to 1st post

621. DONE. All code transferred to Gitlab.

700. DONE. Fixed by Martin of the main project..
Stack Lift Fault report for COMPLEX given. CC currently does not set SL. It should, as CC terminates entry. Currently CC only works if SL is set by the last operand before it is called.



TODO

204. Check which functions are missing on the main project’s menus and decide if certain functions are to be added to menus. Big job - no time for that now.

218. Fix 43S to 43C name in DMCP compile for DM42 image

307. CUST2. To request from main project.
Dani suggested. Creation of CUST1 & CUST2 menu. The MyMenu and ASN functionality seems to be exactly what Dani wants. The problem is there is only one MyMenu.
JM to write feature change request to Walter.

316. Change TAM input screen to have a better menu, somehow. Not clear how. Possibly include BASE menu in TAM screen for base shortcuts and WS shortcuts.

323. Write a function so that CC, # & WSINT key function can be run from softmenus.

603. Verify SLS_xxx in items.c for all changed items.

604. Text mode: g[0] & g[-] is duplicated. No text is on g[+]. We can add some alpha letters.

605. Sigfig: maybe change “SIGFIG” to “SIG”.
https://youtu.be/8qLSUk78oEg

614. Decide which Alpha keys are to be on the front of emulator. And on the Text input screen.

615. Determine greek letters on physical layout.

622. Hex, Dec, Oct, Bin #..
#B still doesn’t work. It should if D and H works.
#O can work for octal in the HP43C.

623. Find place for >DP and >SP in menu

624. BASE: add # and A-F.
# in menu does not do FF#16 but 15 works.

625. TAM mode disappears after 4 sec

626. Next item



WAITING

209. WAIT. Added temporary ALPHA menu in alpha input.
Wait for 43S project to fix AlphaMyMenu to fix this.

210. WAIT. Added myAlpha item in HOME menu. This is a placeholder for the MyMenu which is not yet done by main project 43S.
Wait for 43S project to add MyMenu to fix this.

211. WAIT. Hardcode MyMenu on E+ as a default USER key. Including 322. Config USER default to have MyMenu on Sigma+
Wait until main project adds MyMenu.

304. WAIT. Jaco requested from main project.
- Jaco followed up re. feature change request to Walter. Resurrected because Walter has not responded. To consider the need for HEX DEC OCT BIN on a soft menu (compare with # operation). I suggested this to Walter. I wait for answer. He answered, and will possibly look at this. I’ll wait.

315. WAIT. Jaco requested from main project.
Make R.BR remember where you left off, I.e. which regs number.
- Jaco requested from main project. “Could you please consider refining both RBR and STATUS viewers to remember where you left the browser, so that when you re-enter the browser, that it re-opens on the same place where you left off? “

317. WAIT. Jaco requested from main project.
Make the calculator default an entry of 100 (without decimal) as a real, not an integer. Currently, 100 is registered as integer, and 100. as real number. It makes a big difference to the display of the 100 if you expect ENG 3 display for example. First formulate a request to the main project.
- Jaco requested from main project. “I would like to request to refine this feature, re. the assumption of type to be a configurable option.”


701. WAIT. Requested to Walter
CPX menu: Please advise on Sign and UNITV that seem to be the same. Is it meant to be the same? If the same, why not remove either?
We can do this if they don’t.

702. WAIT. Requested to Walther
STAT menu: it makes more sense to have both E+ and E- on a primary FN1 and FN2. If one would be inclined to use either, it would be better to have it more readily available. A solution would be to put E+ and E- next to one another on primary FN keys.
We can do this if they don’t.

703. WAIT. Requested to Walter
CATALOG menu: DIGITS: It makes more sense to move the positions of ABCDEF to be on the primaries, to be same as in the INTS menu. Maybe for consistency?
We can do this if they don’t.

704. WAIT. Request ed to Walter
Regarding: >R >P and RECT POLAR
I believe that >R and >P can easily and automatically perform the POLAR and RECT command IF the X register contains a complex type. You maybe want to interlock it to be active only when CPXRES is true, or not. Can this work?
We can do this if they don’t.

705. Next item

Reminders for the actual calc layout:

506. Shading (28S style) instead of underlining of menus. Inautilus busy with design.

507. next item


Below the latest emulator images:
Image

Below the alpha input keyboard layout (unchanged):
Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:13 pm

We need to now focus on the text input. Let me summarize:

The emulator screen of course does not appear on the real calculator, and therefore the non-visible allocation must be easy to remember.

Once in alpha mode,


1. The primary keys produce the alpha letter bottom right of the button.

2. Lower case / higher case is set by down and up arrows.

3. [f] works on the yellow bordered buttons.

4. [f][ I ] and [f][O] set subscript and superscript

5. [g] works on all blue marked buttons for Greek letters. Greek letters are not shown at the moment except for one or two that are fixed because it is hard to produce in GTK.

Greek letters are located on a lookalike basis to the alpha letter, or on soundalike basis. I like most of the allocations, but some can be improved.

- I like the duplication of C and G
- I think H belongs on X. H sometimes is used for the heavy glottal sound, so maybe it can stay.
- J (eta) belongs on H
- Q and V empty
- Sigma belongs on S
- U: Lower case theta must be redrawn.


Can somebody try re-allocate these, or allocate them better, or use the blank keys in order to make a layout which we can remember without seeing the greek letters on the template.

Or do we put the greek letters on the calculator template? It may become tooo busy.

Comments?

Jaco
Clipboard01.png
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Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:10 pm

Re. the Greek letters: I feel we may be at the limit of what the faceplate ca handle already. I also don't see myself having the need to type Greek nearly as much as Latin letters.

Do we need them on the "hard" keys at all?

Just asking...
DM42 SN:00040 | Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time - Steven Wright

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:40 pm

H2X wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:10 pm
Re. the Greek letters: I feel we may be at the limit of what the faceplate ca handle already. I also don't see myself having the need to type Greek nearly as much as Latin letters.

Do we need them on the "hard" keys at all?

Just asking...
I agree with that that the face plate is saturated.
I think we don’t need any additional greek on the key template.

If they are not already on a suitable menu, I will put them on a menu anyway.

However,
The alpha input screen is there any way. It is a necessary feature in the firmware. So the main project has these greek letters linked to the keys any way. On the emulator, the screen changes and it is easy to see where they are. But on the real calc, a person would need to remember gamma sits on the C key. And all of us has the occasional greek character to put into a menu, and in my case it is seldomly something other than either omega and theta. So I would like to remember the hard key for those, for speed, not to dig into menus.

So, I don’t propose having more legends on the face plate, but I propose we optimise the greek layout so that there is chance we remember that tau sits on T and whatever. The catch is it needs a bit of thinking because the greek and latin mapping is not 1:1.

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by inautilus » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:59 am

H2X wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:10 pm
Re. the Greek letters: I feel we may be at the limit of what the faceplate ca handle already. I also don't see myself having the need to type Greek nearly as much as Latin letters.

Do we need them on the "hard" keys at all?

Just asking...
+1

There can be too many notes ... where more is not more.
This is ... without question ... already a masterful score. :)
inautilus wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:12 pm
Consider a pared down, cleaner aesthetic. Consider no letter* ... at all. (*Greek Alphabet)

Eliminate any (and all) unnecessary clutter. ( ... )

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Antoine de Saint-Exupery
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:10 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:40 pm
So, I don’t propose having more legends on the face plate, but I propose we optimise the greek layout so that there is chance we remember that tau sits on T and whatever. The catch is it needs a bit of thinking because the greek and latin mapping is not 1:1.
Version 1 - straight

1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
3. Gamma - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
6. Zeta - F
7. Eta - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
10. Kappa - J
11. Lambda - K
12. Mu - L
13. Nu - M
14. Xi - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
17. Rho - Q
18. Sigma - R
19. Tau - S
20. Upsilon - T
21. Phi - U
22. Chi - V
23. Psi - W
24. Omega - X


Version 2 - blended
1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
10. Kappa - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
7. Eta - F
3. Gamma - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
- J
22. Chi - K
11. Lambda - L
12. Mu - M
13. Nu - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
21. Phi - Q
17. Rho - R
18. Sigma - S
19. Tau - T
20. Upsilon - U
23. Psi - V
24. Omega - W
14. Xi - X
- Y
6. Zeta - Z


Version 3 - suffled
1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
10. Kappa - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
7. Eta - F
3. Gamma - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
- J
22. Chi - K
11. Lambda - L
12. Mu - M
13. Nu - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
- Q
17. Rho - R
18. Sigma - S
19. Tau - T
21. Phi - U
23. Psi - V
24. Omega - W
14. Xi - X
20. Upsilon - Y
6. Zeta - Z

Edit: Variant for 2 and 3; swapping of
22. Chi - C
10. Kappa - K
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:43 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:10 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:40 pm
So, I don’t propose having more legends on the face plate, but I propose we optimise the greek layout so that there is chance we remember that tau sits on T and whatever. The catch is it needs a bit of thinking because the greek and latin mapping is not 1:1.
Version 1 - straight

1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
3. Gamma - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
6. Zeta - F
7. Eta - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
10. Kappa - J
11. Lambda - K
12. Mu - L
13. Nu - M
14. Xi - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
17. Rho - Q
18. Sigma - R
19. Tau - S
20. Upsilon - T
21. Phi - U
22. Chi - V
23. Psi - W
24. Omega - X


Version 2 - blended
1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
10. Kappa - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
7. Eta - F
3. Gamma - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
- J
22. Chi - K
11. Lambda - L
12. Mu - M
13. Nu - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
21. Phi - Q
17. Rho - R
18. Sigma - S
19. Tau - T
20. Upsilon - U
23. Psi - V
24. Omega - W
14. Xi - X
- Y
6. Zeta - Z


Version 3 - suffled
1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
10. Kappa - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
7. Eta - F
3. Gamma - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
- J
22. Chi - K
11. Lambda - L
12. Mu - M
13. Nu - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
- Q
17. Rho - R
18. Sigma - S
19. Tau - T
21. Phi - U
23. Psi - V
24. Omega - W
14. Xi - X
20. Upsilon - Y
6. Zeta - Z

Edit: Variant for 2 and 3; swapping of
22. Chi - C
10. Kappa - K

Thank you Dani
I will study the proposals tomorrow night.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 215
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:35 pm

Version 1A

1. Alpha - A
2. Beta - B
3. Gamma - C
4. Delta - D
5. Epsilon - E
6. Zeta - F
7. Eta - G
8. Theta - H
9. Iota - I
10. Kappa - J
11. Lambda - K
12. Mu - L
13. Nu - M
14. Xi - N
15. Omicron - O
16. Pi - P
- Q
17. Rho - R
18. Sigma - S
19. Tau - T
20. Upsilon - U
21. Phi - V
22. Chi - W
23. Psi - X
24. Omega - Y



I prefere Version3 with the Chi - Kappa swap
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:12 am

Dani R. wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:35 pm


I prefere Version3 with the Chi - Kappa swap
I looked at all four proposals with the following comments:

1. Not intuitive at all.

1A. Not intuitive at all.

2. I made a few changes and what I ended with was almost the same as the changes I wanted in 3. See 3 below.

3. I made a few changes which I want to propose:

I also prefer the C & K swap And version 3: what do you guys think of these proposed changes to 3?

- Eta moves away from F and goes to H because capital Eta (Ηη) looks like H.
- Theta moves from H to either Q (or U). I prefer Theta on Q due to the similarity of the capital Theta (Θθ).
- Phi (Φφ) either stays on U (or moves from U to Q) [or moves from U to J].
- Digamma goes to F because it looks like F. (I doubt any would ever use digamma but it is a valid archaic Greek letter in context)(I also doubt anyone would actually use x! Or hypsin, but we provide that too).
- We could use J (unused) to duplicate Epsilon and the alternate form of epsilon. (ε⍷)

Dani, if there are reasons that you chose The ones that I propose to change, please advise.

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:11 am

Jaymos wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:12 am
- We could use J (unused) to duplicate Epsilon and the alternate form of epsilon. (ε⍷)
I have a feeling that duplicating things on "hard" keys would only confuse my muscle memory. After all, the Greek alphabet has fewer letters than the English, so it shouldn't be a requirement that every key is assigned a letter in both.

Other than than, I think your suggestions sound good, Jaymos. Could we see an example? :-)
DM42 SN:00040 | Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time - Steven Wright

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