43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:31 pm

inautilus wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:37 pm
Which renderings ... versions, configurations ... would yo like for Saturday.
Do you have higher resolution images for printing?

The quad image is 1904 x 859 for 4 images wide. I would like higher res.

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:11 am

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:55 pm
So, do we have opinions on the new L1 and L1A ?

Image
I like EQN on the same row as MATX and STAT, and VIEW is OK next to SHOW.

I also liked ALPHA.FN on the same key as ALPHA. What happened? Did I sleep?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by inautilus » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:25 am

Jaymos, renderings as promised ...

And for everyone else interested as well. :D I've uploaded the previous four renderings from series 7, but with a better resolution. Try to look past the obvious errors (they are all quite outdated now) ... and focus perhaps on the various layout arrangements ... to see if there might be one there that you can live with, and possibly even like.

The fifth and last one is much further along, and has a very high resolution. But it too is still a work in progress. At last count ... there were at least 30 items / adjustments that need to be addressed. So look past those as well, i know what they are, and instead feed back with your opinions.

Thanks in advance for any considered views you might be able to share.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t0pIr ... MxvED0YzNV
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:32 am

H2X wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:11 am
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:55 pm
So, do we have opinions on the new L1 and L1A ?
I like EQN on the same row as MATX and STAT, and VIEW is OK next to SHOW.

I also liked ALPHA.FN on the same key as ALPHA. What happened? Did I sleep?
Hi, thank you for checking in detail, H2X !!

The change with a.FN was discussed a few days ago when we realised that a.FN actually is a programming group and has no functions that you would directly use, therefore, the only reason we had it with alpha, was visual appearance, and the it belongs close to the programming group.

The good news is that all the menu commands which you need when typing comes up in the alpha menu once you are in the alpha mode.

I am considering a name change for a.FN too, as I am not convinced it should stay a.FN. Maybe TX.FN or just simply TEXT.

The functions are: rotating a text string, picking out a character from a string into text, etc. Each command in the pic below is described in Walter's manual.

Please have a look and advise your comments, also about the possible name change.
Clipboard01.png
Clipboard01.png (1.17 KiB) Viewed 1066 times
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:42 am

inautilus wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:25 am
Jaymos, renderings as promised ...

And for everyone else interested as well. :D I've uploaded the previous four renderings from series 7, but with a better resolution. Try to look past the obvious errors (they are all quite outdated now) ... and focus perhaps on the various layout arrangements ... to see if there might be one there that you can live with, and possibly even like.

The fifth and last one is much further along, and has a very high resolution. But it too is still a work in progress. At last count ... there were at least 30 items / adjustments that need to be addressed. So look past those as well, i know what they are, and instead feed back with your opinions.

Thanks in advance for any considered views you might be able to share.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t0pIr ... MxvED0YzNV
I have converted all 5 to 6x4 sized postcards and will go pick them up at the shop today.

I find it excruciating to have to look at the 4 old ones when you have a stunning stunning STUNNING work in progress. Those fonts on there new one are incredible !!!!! And the shades for the buttons !! wow!!

Later!
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:00 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:32 am
Hi, thank you for checking in detail, H2X !!
You're most welcome! Thank you for your excellent work! :-)
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:32 am
The change with a.FN was discussed a few days ago when we realised that a.FN actually is a programming group and has no functions that you would directly use, therefore, the only reason we had it with alpha, was visual appearance, and the it belongs close to the programming group.
Good point. Thanks for the reminder.
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:32 am
I am considering a name change for a.FN too, as I am not convinced it should stay a.FN. Maybe TX.FN or just simply TEXT.

The functions are: rotating a text string, picking out a character from a string into text, etc. Each command in the pic below is described in Walter's manual.

Please have a look and advise your comments, also about the possible name change.

Clipboard01.png
Changing the name appeals to me, although they seem better described as "string functions" than "text functions" - at least to me.

On the other hand, STR might not be a good name, since STK already exists.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

Dani R.
Posts: 285
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:04 am

H2X wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:00 am
...

Changing the name appeals to me, although they seem better described as "string functions" than "text functions" - at least to me.

On the other hand, STR might not be a good name, since STK already exists.
S.FN

I think it's so rarely used, and then by the people who use P.FN also.


EDIT:

A.FN

Maybe the big A is enough to establish the distance to ALPHA.
DM42 SN:00032

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:15 am

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:04 am
H2X wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:00 am
...

Changing the name appeals to me, although they seem better described as "string functions" than "text functions" - at least to me.

On the other hand, STR might not be a good name, since STK already exists.
S.FN

I think it's so rarely used, and then by the people who use P.FN also.


EDIT:

A.FN

Maybe the big A is enough to establish the distance to ALPHA.
It may just be me, but "string functions" is a phrase in my vocabulary - "alpha functions" is not. Also, oftentimes "alpha" associates with "alphanumerical", which might want to be avoided here?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 am

H2X wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:15 am
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:04 am
H2X wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:00 am
...

Changing the name appeals to me, although they seem better described as "string functions" than "text functions" - at least to me.

On the other hand, STR might not be a good name, since STK already exists.
S.FN

I think it's so rarely used, and then by the people who use P.FN also.


EDIT:

A.FN

Maybe the big A is enough to establish the distance to ALPHA.
It may just be me, but "string functions" is a phrase in my vocabulary - "alpha functions" is not. Also, oftentimes "alpha" associates with "alphanumerical", which might want to be avoided here?
I agree with avoiding misleading names. a.FN already misleads and does not describe the same thing. I like inautilus' boxed alpha letter on its own, but I do not like the a.FN of there main project.

I would propose something more different like TXT, TEXT, or TXT.FN or STR.FN (if it fits), but not STR which is too close to STK.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:26 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:42 am
inautilus wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:25 am
Jaymos, renderings as promised ...

And for everyone else interested as well. :D I've uploaded the previous four renderings from series 7, but with a better resolution. Try to look past the obvious errors (they are all quite outdated now) ... and focus perhaps on the various layout arrangements ... to see if there might be one there that you can live with, and possibly even like.

The fifth and last one is much further along, and has a very high resolution. But it too is still a work in progress. At last count ... there were at least 30 items / adjustments that need to be addressed. So look past those as well, i know what they are, and instead feed back with your opinions.

Thanks in advance for any considered views you might be able to share.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t0pIr ... MxvED0YzNV
I have converted all 5 to 6x4 sized postcards and will go pick them up at the shop today.

I find it excruciating to have to look at the 4 old ones when you have a stunning stunning STUNNING work in progress. Those fonts on there new one are incredible !!!!! And the shades for the buttons !! wow!!

Later!
Comments on the photo prints that I made of all five files:

I first sorted the photos on visual impact, without analysis. I made sure I viewed the photographs in good sunlight to counter the thin font strokes. Just looked for clarity. In reverse order of success:

R 7 Label cn FP3 no border no shade 0.114
I really need the subtle indication that a label is NOT a menu, therefore which ones are straight commands. This rendition helps in confusing my mind - and I know the layout. I think this will be worse for newbies and occasional users.

R 7 Label cn FP3 lt border no shade 0.114
This is definitely better, in the sense that the boxes convey the message of MNU or not. But I experience the lines as clutter. It makes it more difficult to read.

R 7 Label cn FP3 no border 0.114
The dark shading reduces the clutter and conveys the message. Very effective.

R 7 Label cn FP3 lt border 0.114 (edited language)
This is a good compromise of the previous three. This one remains my choice as the dark shading and the subdued boxes cancel the clutter effect previously mentioned. It is possible though that the boxes are increasing the apparent text contrast, which is not good because of the lack of font stroke thickness. The shaded and boxed method seems to me to be the answer. Comparing this one to the previous three, it is clear that the most pleasing result is the subdued boxes with dark shading.

R 9 Hi-Res Compressed NHG Font - 2019-08-24 D A MacDonald
Comparing this to the previous 4, I seem to think that it could also benefit from the boxes. The stronger font may override that, as the contrast may be good enough with only the subtle shading.

About font, I note that the compressed font size will allow a point or two size up.
Any font edits, I will gladly do. Maybe a slightly compressed math x for LASTx?
I will add the lower case letters needed to the custom font too. Will send maybe tonight (GMT+2).

I refrain to comment on more, as per request.

Just a last comment to say I am suitably impressed ;-)
Last edited by Jaymos on Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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