43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:15 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:00 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:40 am
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:55 am
I got another new idea, which you can also check. Couldn't you generally underline the menus, no matter if they are on [f] or on [g], with six short white dots/lines, which would symbolize the keys F1..F6. Certainly difficult with Gtk, Qt QML would probably not help either. But to realize with CorelDraw?
Impossible with GTK. I mean everything is possible, but not at the cost of work for the emulator. I agree, maybe do some tests on a graphic file so we can see what it is like, for possible use in the future template. Gimp may be a good tool to do a mock up. Can you try?
Hello Jaco

You get food for another dummy. I have no idea if the idea works or if we should just discard it again.

Regards Dani
I think discard. It makes the total impression more "noisy".

Here is the pic in the emulator.

Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:55 pm

But you should also turn off shading and underlining, so both. Then it will look different again, like a possible preview on a printed keyboard.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:05 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:55 pm
But you should also turn off shading and underlining, so both. Then it will look different again, like a possible preview on a printed keyboard.
I still don't like it.

Here is the pic in the emulator.

Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:38 pm

The short stitches are two pixels thick and have a distance of one pixel. I will sleep on them. Then I will make a 1 to 1 print. Then I will find out that the printing on the keyboard plate still needs a practicable solution.
I don't think that the thickness and the distances are the reasons that you don't like it spontaneously. So I will not experiment with this parameter at the moment.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:43 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:38 pm
The short stitches are two pixels thick and have a distance of one pixel. I will sleep on them. Then I will make a 1 to 1 print. Then I will find out that the printing on the keyboard plate still needs a practicable solution.
I don't think that the thickness and the distances are the reasons that you don't like it spontaneously. So I will not experiment with this parameter at the moment.
I can give a more complete answer:

At the moment I don't like it because the lines are too bright and they are disturbing the balance.

I think a more balanced dotted lines might work. As you say if thinner, maybe.

Also, remember, the real template will not have the same pixel limitations. Typically 300 dpi is used, therefore, the lines can be thinner, sharper, duller, in short, more balanced.

On the emulator template, maybe tome down the lines, and make it a bit more subtle.

j
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:00 pm

Yeah, that's what I meant. For the emulator template the solution with the shading seems to work well for me. For the emulator I won't make any effort to make this suggestion workable with the dotted line. For the real template I have fortunately never worked myself into CorelDraw. I know those who did this will never get away from CorelDraw again. ;)
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:11 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:00 pm
Yeah, that's what I meant. For the emulator template the solution with the shading seems to work well for me. For the emulator I won't make any effort to make this suggestion workable with the dotted line. For the real template I have fortunately never worked myself into CorelDraw. I know those who did this will never get away from CorelDraw again. ;)
I have used CorelDraw before. I will again load up the free CorelDraw demo onto this new laptop, once I am ready to make a template. The demo will only for a couple of weeks, so I will be timing it before I download and install it.

I used the free CorelDraw demo to make this keyboard template. It is not the final one, but I just show what's possible using Corel. I tried the free alternatives but without real success. I took a lot of trouble finding the right fonts that really looks like a calculator.: http://www.cocoon-creations.com/downloa ... medium.bmp
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 am

I did a lot of operating the emulator to work on the SIGFIG display mode, and during this time I had to do a lot of 'normal' calcs. This was actually valuable to see where some menus were difficult to access, and this points straight to item 401:

As it was up to now:
INFO MODE CNST DISP <- CLR

I changed it to:
MODE INFO DISP CNST <- CLR

Practicality wins. The single tap shift for DISP is definitely required, and same for MODE. So both MODE and DISP are as per the HP42S yellow labels.
The CLR remains reversed, as I want the UNDO on the easier accessible button. So this item is ticked off too.


---
I send the complete list, so I basically keep sane. Sorry for the volume. The procedure with the list below is as follows: All old "DONE"’s were deleted and fall away. The previous "NEW" items are now not new any more, and I removed only the "NEW". I added new "DONE"'s and "NEW"s as applicable, which, on the next mail will change again. So the list will tell the reader which items were completed and which are pending still.


—-
Todo reminders:

201. Fix keyboard key shortcuts on the emulator broken due to layout change

202. Fix Alpha key layout and menus that is broken due to layout change

203. DONE: Asked inautilus to edit the background graphic, to include the blue/yellow dots

204. Check which functions are missing on the main project’s menus and decide if certain functions are to be added. Big job - no time for that now.

205. On the text entry mode, add a special MENU line for all the commands required during text entry, which are missing due to reshuffling..

206. next item

——
Wish list:

301. DONE. Find more math candidates for the HOME menu. Menu full.
PARLL / x! / xˆ2 / pi / e / CLSTK

303. Add SigFig mode as per WP31S, 34S, 34C. This is automatic rounding, which in SIG mode, will display 3.14159 as 3.142 and will display 299792458 as 299 800 000 or 299.8 x10ˆ6 in ENG mode.

304. WAIT. To consider the need for HEX DEC OCT BIN on a soft menu (compare with # operation). I suggested this to Walter. I wait for answer.

307. Creation of CUST1 menu. Variable content.

308. Add METRIC mode for ENG mode, to display metric unit prefixes, i.e. display k instead of 10ˆ3, M instead of 10ˆ6, G instead of 10ˆ9, for example an X register of 170000 should display in ENG as 170 x 10ˆ3, but if this is activated, must display 170 k

311. See if white lines from the actual FN buttons to the screen labels can be drawn. The purpose is to see if it will help fit the wider keys to the narrower soft buttons on screen.

312. DONE: See if the alpha text characters on the emulator keyboard contrast can improve. Maybe +20% font size. Also mark Y and N bright white, to aid Y/N responses. I don’t like the red - but it is a CSS file change only that you can fiddle with on the client machine, at least on the Mac it is.

313. DONE: See if the underlined text characters on the emulator keyboard clutter can improve by shading instead of underlines. It is a CSS file change only that you can fiddle with on the client machine, at least on the Mac it is.

314. DONE: Changed TRIG menu to be more applicable to DM42 keyboard, i.e. moved SIN COS TAN to shifted keys to have the ASIN ACOS ATAN on primaries lining up with the dedicated SIN COS TANJ on the keys.

315. next item

---
To re-consider:

401. DONE. Consider changing back to yellow for MODE, DISP & CLR. Unlikely to change. But wait to test on DM42.
Chose:" MODE INFO DISP CNST <- CLR"

402. WAIT. Consider FILL and STK swap back to R< and >P. Unlikely to change. But wait to test on DM42.

403. DONE. Leaving at R.BR & B.BR. Trying R.BR B.BR now. Removed RG.V BT.V as it feels too weird. I’m not convinced it is the best yet. Best alternative is staying close to main project. Also R.ST B.ST and RG.ST and Bt.ST was mentioned.

407. next item

—-
Reminders for the actual calc layout:

502. Yellow and blue dots above shift button

503. Increase contrast in text letters on the future template

504. Maybe use dotted underlines for menus (for yellow and blue underline) on the future template

505. Mark the “Y” and “N”bright white to help finding the yes/no answer to some confirmations, on the future template

506. Possibly have shading (28S style) instead of underlining of menus.

507. next item



The image below is the latest image. It is now user selectable to save the correct CSS file, which will either have the shaded menu items, or the underlined menu items. At least like this one the Mac Emulator.

Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by inautilus » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:08 am

Hey ... I figure it would be timely now to pass along an update. I've been working full out on a high resolution template over the last few days ... and will continue over the weekend. Looks very promising ... with several different iterations to consider ... and critique. So, don't throw out any of those hard won ideas yet ... just because the graphic design road got a little bumpy. Should be ready to submit what I have late Sunday evening (or Monday morning). Enjoy the weekend. Cheers ...
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:25 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 am
... So both MODE and DISP are as per the HP42S yellow labels.

The CLR remains reversed, as I want the UNDO on the easier accessible button. So this item is ticked off too.
I'm (to nobody's surprise) happy with that, and UNDO CLR is well supported. I notice that it also conforms with the principle of menus to the right, non-menus to the left. This could be considered an improvement of the legacy. All good!

I also think that the layout is starting to look very pleasing, but are the INFO and DISP labels a bit too close to each other?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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