43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 am

rprosperi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:54 am
Walter wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:38 pm
%T returns - according to my information - 100 x/y. If this is true then it's a challenge for me to understand the use of this function. Why not just use x/y and do the trivial rest mentally? What do I miss?
%T preserves T, Z, and Y. This is the first thing I assign on the keyboard of any (non-finance) machine I start to use (except any 41C model, where PACK is the first thing I assign and %T is second). Also, one of the fundamental purposes of a calculator is to not have to do the rest mentally.

I support assigning %T and honestly didn't notice until now it was not already available.

But perhaps its a good idea to leave a pair (both f- and g- shifts of a given key) of assignments blank to be used by each owner to assign his/her favorite function which is not assigned. In my case, I'll assign %T to one of them. :)
Ok, for more roasting I will admit I never even really understood the need for a % function on a 'scientific' calc. If somebody wants to add 17,5% to 1234, (s)he can do easily via 1234 [ENTER] 1.175 [x]. Done.

Well, for financial people, there we offer dedicated problem solvers with % and %T (opens the door to math kindergarten - sin, cos, tan, and brains must stay out).

([:-)
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akaTB
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Re: 43S News

Post by akaTB » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:58 am

Walter wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 am

Ok, for more roasting I will admit I never even really understood the need for a % function on a 'scientific' calc. If somebody wants to add 17,5% to 1234, (s)he can do easily via 1234 [ENTER] 1.175 [x]. Done.
Ditto.
The only one I find useful is %CH (Δ%).
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rprosperi
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Re: 43S News

Post by rprosperi » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:13 pm

akaTB wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:58 am
Walter wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 am

Ok, for more roasting I will admit I never even really understood the need for a % function on a 'scientific' calc. If somebody wants to add 17,5% to 1234, (s)he can do easily via 1234 [ENTER] 1.175 [x]. Done.
Ditto.
The only one I find useful is %CH (Δ%).
If my calculating needs were limited to my Engineering days, I'd agree. But running a business, I use %, %T and %CH FAR more often than SIN, LN, or other scientific functions, but I still prefer to use the same full-featured scientific machines I use for hobby/learning time. Maybe (probably) I'm in the minority about that, but still it's better to comment and see if others share the same preferences.

@Walter - what about the suggestion to leave some shifted assignments open for custom use?
--bob p

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:03 pm

rprosperi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:13 pm
@Walter - what about the suggestion to leave some shifted assignments open for custom use?
@Bob: I'd leave even all three open unless there are nice (and reasonable) proposals for their population. :)

BTW, an unshifted %T is in FIN for long.
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cdmackay
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Re: 43S News

Post by cdmackay » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:32 pm

Walter wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 am
Ok, for more roasting I will admit I never even really understood the need for a % function on a 'scientific' calc.
That’s funny, I agree; I was going to reply to your first post, asking if the justification was that it’s too easy, then why do you have % on a key already? :)

For most of my life, I’ve never seen the point of having the percent key(s), but since I got into HP a few years ago, and made an effort to start using them, I now find them useful. As has been noted, I see their value when using them in the middle of a larger calculation.

True, much could be done mentally, and often I wonder why I picked up my calculator when I could as easily do it in my head. Just to give them a workout, I think, let them see daylight :)
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:35 pm

cdmackay wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:32 pm
Walter wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 am
Ok, for more roasting I will admit I never even really understood the need for a % function on a 'scientific' calc.
That’s funny, I agree; I was going to reply to your first post, asking if the justification was that it’s too easy, then why do you have % on a key already? :)
You're right. Since there is an unshifted % in FIN, we can remove the shifted % from the keyboard. One free location more. :)

EDIT: ... and occupied immediately - this area is looking like this now:
Ausschnitt2.png
Ausschnitt2.png (2.54 KiB) Viewed 650 times
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boessu
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Re: 43S News

Post by boessu » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm

Walter wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 am
Well, for financial people, there we offer dedicated problem solvers with % and %T (opens the door to math kindergarten - sin, cos, tan, and brains must stay out).

([:-)
Just to save the honor of perhaps present economists, I would like to mention that in the financial sector there is also the application for things like the natural logarithm (e.g. the Black Scholes model for the valuation of options). That maybe also answers the question of why there is an LN key on a HP12C. But I don't think you've talked about these people. ;-)

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Re: 43S News

Post by Thomas Okken » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:22 pm

In other news, 1/x is redundant if you already have ÷, and so are × and x^2, for that matter. Likewise, + can be accomplished using −, and tan(x) is sin(x)/cos(x), etc. Minimalism or convenience, which will it be? :D

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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:51 pm

Walter wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:33 pm
Grazie, Massimo, and thanks ijabott!

Looking at the characters you mentioned, #x2BA2 and #x2BA3 are the best fitting ones in my view. And we have ,,, and  in Luiz Vieira's Keyset font. Nevertheless I think the colours are matching the actual use on this keyboard better than direction arrows (see [EXIT] in particular). So I prefer [f] and [g] still.
I am perfectly happy with [f] and [g], but a thought crossed my mind which would be interesting to have some feedback on:

Would a tri-state shift button appeal to the forum? That is, press once to activate the first shifted mode (f), once more to activate the second (g), and once more again to return to unshifted.

Should be compatible with printing needs, and might free up one key, if that is of any use.
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:28 pm

H2X wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:51 pm
Would a tri-state shift button appeal to the forum? That is, press once to activate the first shifted mode (f), once more to activate the second (g), and once more again to return to unshifted.
Our 43S design is pretty Parkinson-safe so far, I think. Your proposal would change that ... ;)

And two shifted locations are free still, so there's no pressing need for more AFAICS right now.
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