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DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:09 am
by kb7vvd
I have a DM41L and when I enter a program the "op codes" are the text of the function/step. i.e. X<>Y or CHS, etc. For the DM15L will the programming op codes be in text like the DM41L or will they be like the native HP15C and be a combination of numbers like 43 06, 08, etc?

Thanks....
Jim

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:55 am
by grsbanks
It will be as the HP-15C.

The DM15L is in fact an emulator running the HP-15C's ROM (with a few patches for the extra memory etc.)

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:30 am
by Walter
grsbanks wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:55 am
It will be as the HP-15C.

The DM15L is in fact an emulator running the HP-15C's ROM (with a few patches for the extra memory etc.)
Which, IMHO, is a pity. It could be a real progress if programs would become readable. And I assume this progress being easily reached since you just need a translation table. Maybe food for thoughts about a future edition.

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:17 pm
by Boub65
Walter wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:30 am
...
Which, IMHO, is a pity. It could be a real progress if programs would become readable. And I assume this progress being easily reached since you just need a translation table. Maybe food for thoughts about a future edition.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000 (34 digits 8-) )

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:39 pm
by grsbanks
Walter wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:30 am
And I assume this progress being easily reached since you just need a translation table.
And I reckon you assume wrong. The HP-15C has no alphanumeric ability so this means dumping the whole ROM+emulator combo and writing a simulator from scratch.

Feel free :)

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:29 pm
by Boub65
What Walter was saying (tell me if I'm wrong) was...
Why can't we do something like "trapping" the display instructions and when in program mode, store these instructions and once the full programming command is decoded convert into aplhanumeric ones rather than num key codes.
(I'm assuming that display is done in Swissmicros firmware so "we" have control to put convert tables)

Very very easy to say, laying in my bed, of course! :lol:

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:53 pm
by rprosperi
I can only speculate, but I'd assume the internal discussion in SM went something kike this:

Q1 - Is it possible to replace the 15C program mode instruction display with opcodes, rather than keycodes?
A1 - Possible... Yes, but hard, and likely to introduce bugs.

Q2 - Would 15C users appreciate that touch?
A2 - Experienced 15C users, yes. Noobs, not so much.

Q3 - Would we sell a lot more units if we did this?
A3 - Unlikely, perhaps a few more

Q4 - Why are we discussing this again???

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:00 pm
by kb7vvd
Thanks all for the lively discussion. My original question was answered. It is not a deal breaker for my purchase of a DM15L.

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:50 pm
by Walter
One more post about the display:

AFAIK it's a dot matrix. And a dot matrix allows you doing everything you can display with the matrix featured. Also the original 7-segment digits had to be translated... :)

So it should be viable translating the key codes not yet present... it doesn't look like rocket science, at least. ;)

Re: DM15L programming

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:54 pm
by michel_b
Walter wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:50 pm
AFAIK it's a dot matrix. And a dot matrix allows you doing everything you can display with the matrix featured.
It appears to me that the choice has been made that the DM-15 is an *exact* replica of the HP-15c and does *exactly* the same by running the same firmware - and I LOVE it this way. For example using the original HP-15c firmware avoids falling upon new bugs that the latest HP chinese “limited edition replicas” had.

The hardware being emulated, it CAN include emulating a 7-segment display on a more capable matrix display (and even choosing your preferred font), as it include emulating an old processor on a more modern and capable one.

Emulating the hardware is OK, but that completely prohibits changing the BEHAVIOUR or capabilities of the machine - the addition of the RTC can also be seen as OK as long as it is outside of the calculator and doesn't interfere with it at all.

It's just like running the original calculator inside of a virtual machine if you prefer. You can change the skin, make the box bigger or smaller, but that's all.

The DM-15 behaves as the HP-15c, and that means it displays key codes and not function names.

The DM-15 is *not* an HP-15C “plus fancy features” except for a faster processor and larger memory.

If you need a calculator that displays function names, you'd better go for a model that has such capabilities from the start, such as the DM-41L for example.

My 2¢ ;)