Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

The Beta programme is where a device becomes fully formed. If you have any suggestions for features to integrate into the DM41X then feel free to make them here. We can't guarantee that they'll all end up in the final product but we'll certainly consider all sensible proposals.
dlachieze
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm
Location: France

Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by dlachieze »

I don't see any way to check the XROM number of a module in the different Module screens of the DM41X. I know that there are functions in AMC OS/X for example which display the XROM numbers of the modules plugged in, but it would be easier to detect conflicting XROM numbers at the configuration stage before getting the OS/X "CONFIG BAD" message if there was a way to see the XROM ID of the different modules in the Module ROM map.

By the way when we have two modules with the same XROM ID, for ex. 12, there is a message briefly displayed at power on, or when executing the OS/X CHKSYS function: "DUP XROM 12" before the "CONFIG BAD" message but it is so quickly displayed that it's hard to read it even in SLOW mode, it would be better if it stays a little longer on the screen. Also when exiting the Module configuration screen with a duplicate XROM config I don't see the "DUP XROM xx" message, just the "CONFIG BAD" message.
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
Ángel Martin
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by Ángel Martin »

I could add a delay after each "DUP ROM" message... let me look at the available room in the library.
But the check does not happen in a power off event so I'm not sure why you see "CONFIG BAD" at all in that instance...
Ángel Martin
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by Ángel Martin »

BTW you can manually check for XROM conflicts calling "CHKSYS" also in the OS/4 module
dlachieze
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm
Location: France

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by dlachieze »

Ángel Martin wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:34 pm
But the check does not happen in a power off event so I'm not sure why you see "CONFIG BAD" at all in that instance...
It's easy to reproduce on the DM41X: plug the Library4, OSX and twice the Math module and each time you power on the DM41X you get the two messages "DUP XROM 01" and "CONFIG BAD"

20201020-17474059.bmp
20201020-17474059.bmp (12.31 KiB) Viewed 451 times
20201020-17480114.bmp
20201020-17480114.bmp (12.31 KiB) Viewed 451 times
20201020-17480381.bmp
20201020-17480381.bmp (12.31 KiB) Viewed 451 times
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
rprosperi
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:48 pm
Location: New York

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by rprosperi »

Thanks for the suggestions Didier.

We're already planning to add displaying the XROM IDs into a future release, based on some earlier feedback during the HHC Conference prep. meetings (I think a nod goes to Mark Power, IIRC), but I like the suggestion to include it in ROM MAP view. The plan has been to include it in the ROMs view in MMF, where all the ROM details are shown, so you can check the XROM IDs before loading a module, but ROM MAP view is probably handier when deciding which duplicate to remove. Maybe both, as they are each handy?

Thanks!
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
hth313
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:00 pm

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by hth313 »

While it is nice that is says DUP XROM, or that there is a feature to check this on request, I think that stating that the configuration is bad to be incorrect.

The HP-41 OS has been written with duplicate XROMs in mind. It is allowed to do this and it will attempt to do the best it can with the situation. What happens is that the first of the duplicate XROMs shadows the second one, but only for the function codes that are shared. If the second XROM has more functions, those extra functions are still accessible.
dlachieze
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm
Location: France

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by dlachieze »

hth313 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:06 pm
What happens is that the first of the duplicate XROMs shadows the second one, but only for the function codes that are shared. If the second XROM has more functions, those extra functions are still accessible.
Well, even if technically, as you say, the HP-41 OS can deal with modules having the same ROM ID, I think that intentionally having overlapping modules to be able to use the extra functions of the second module is an extremely rare use case.

With the number of people getting a DM41X and either new to the 41 environment or without a deep experience in module management combined with the number of modules available and the ease of use provided by the DM41X for plugging any module, I think that people will more likely encounter troubles due to duplicate ROM IDs rather than purposely plug two modules with the same ROM ID.

Anyway, in both cases having an easy way to see the ROM IDs of the modules when plugging them and/or in the ROM map of the modules plugged can help troubleshooting any issue or verifying that the config is correct as intended by the user.
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
Ángel Martin
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by Ángel Martin »

hth313 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:06 pm
While it is nice that is says DUP XROM, or that there is a feature to check this on request, I think that stating that the configuration is bad to be incorrect.

The HP-41 OS has been written with duplicate XROMs in mind. It is allowed to do this and it will attempt to do the best it can with the situation. What happens is that the first of the duplicate XROMs shadows the second one, but only for the function codes that are shared. If the second XROM has more functions, those extra functions are still accessible.
Sure, but for the common ones (usually a large set if not all) hell can break loose very quickly and very deeply when you inadvertently trigger the "earlier-in-the-bus" function instead of the one you were after (even if it was assigned to a USER key). Semantics aside, this is a situation to avoid so I'm more than comfortable with calling it "BAD".
User avatar
akaTB
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 1:56 pm
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by akaTB »

Ángel Martin wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:19 pm
hth313 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:06 pm
While it is nice that is says DUP XROM, or that there is a feature to check this on request, I think that stating that the configuration is bad to be incorrect.

The HP-41 OS has been written with duplicate XROMs in mind. It is allowed to do this and it will attempt to do the best it can with the situation. What happens is that the first of the duplicate XROMs shadows the second one, but only for the function codes that are shared. If the second XROM has more functions, those extra functions are still accessible.
Sure, but for the common ones (usually a large set if not all) hell can break loose very quickly and very deeply when you inadvertently trigger the "earlier-in-the-bus" function instead of the one you were after (even if it was assigned to a USER key). Semantics aside, this is a situation to avoid so I'm more than comfortable with calling it "BAD".
Print "ROM CONFLICT" and everyone's happy... :mrgreen:
Greetings,
    Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong :twisted: Casted in gold
Ángel Martin
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Conflicting XROM numbers / ROM map / AMC OS/X

Post by Ángel Martin »

akaTB wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:12 pm
Print "ROM CONFLICT" and everyone's happy... :mrgreen:
Life is short, and the ROM is full!
;-)
Post Reply