Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

The Beta programme is where a device becomes fully formed. If you have any suggestions for features to integrate into the DM41X then feel free to make them here. We can't guarantee that they'll all end up in the final product but we'll certainly consider all sensible proposals.
EM41
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Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by EM41 »

As we know the cardreader contains functions to convert some unique HP-67 functions to HP-41 functions.
I was playing with some programs in .raw format from the HP-67 library on the museum website and concluded that it would be nice to have the cardreader conversion functions available to make the specific 67 functions work on the DM41.
I don't know if it is possible to simply extract the cardreader rom and include it in the DM41.
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Dan Simpson
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by Dan Simpson »

First of all, please forgive me if I mention any unmentionables here. I am not trying to intentionally open any old wounds or irritate anybody.
I found a .MOD file for the card reader ROM at a site that I am not sure that I can mention here. You may know where I am talking about.

But, the DM41X says: "Refusing to load unsupported HW module. Config option to override this can appear in some future firmware."
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My Collection: HP-55, HP-67 (Teenix Mod), HP-15C, HP-16C, HP-41CV, HP-41CX, SY41-CL (x2), DM41X (Beta), DM42, HP-42S, HP-48G, HP-71B (x2), HP-75C, HP-150.
EM41
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by EM41 »

Dan, thanks for testing this, it shows al least that it is not simply extract and install.
Also an interesting error message, maybe something under development regarding this kind of modules (cardreader, HPIL).

Edit: Found the module, don't see the problem with that website.
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rprosperi
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by rprosperi »

It's no problem mentioning hp41.org here, that's only an issue at MoHPC due to very old and silly history.

H/W device based ROMs are blocked to prevent crashes and other nasty behavior, because the ROM code fully expects (which is reasonable) custom h/w is available to reach out and touch, which is not there in the DM41X, and there is no way to handle that other than to spend a lot effort preemptively building something to catch all those touches only to then say it can't be used. So, the decision to simply block them makes sense, even if not immediately intuitive.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
EM41
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by EM41 »

Bob, I understand but I think the translation functions starting with 7 don't need any special hardware, maybe a partial inclusion of the cardreader rom is possible.

Erik
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rprosperi
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by rprosperi »

I'm not aware of any VASM/IDS/Documented Source Code listing of the Cardreader's ROM, so this is no small task. One would have to disassemble and reverse engineer the full ROM, extract the '7' functions and rebuild a new ROM image with only those portions. Having done so, one could then install the new .mod file in a 41X. But a huge amount of work, probably far more than manually translating all the 67 .raw files one may want to use.

As the CR ROM is available from hp-41.org, perhaps someone has tried to install the ROM into V41? If that works, you could then try importing the 67 .raw files into V41, manually changing the '7' commands to vanilla 41 command equivalents and then export a new .raw to import into a 41X.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
dlachieze
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by dlachieze »

EM41 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:55 pm
I was playing with some programs in .raw format from the HP-67 library on the museum website [...]
If you use the .raw files then you need the original XROM numbers for the 67 functions in the card reader rom, but :
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:43 am
H/W device based ROMs are blocked to prevent crashes and other nasty behavior
So if the detection of the H/W device based ROMs is using the XROM ID, then I suppose that it will not be possible to extract only the 67 functions and create a new MOD file while keeping the original XROM numbers.
EM41 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:50 pm
Bob, I understand but I think the translation functions starting with 7 don't need any special hardware, maybe a partial inclusion of the cardreader rom is possible.
Bob, do you know how the card reader ROM is detected by the DM41X software?
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
EM41
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by EM41 »

I know the xrom codes for the HP-67 7xxx functions and also what they do so manually changing them on the DM41 for HP41 commands is not that difficult. The commands are also not very complicated but automatic translation is just more convenient and it makes the DM41 even more behave like a true HP41.
You can find the codes and functions here https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwra ... read=10774
When loading the .raw file it shows the right xrom numbers as if no card reader is present, which is the case of course.
HP41C (2x), HP41CV, HP41CX, DM41X β, DM41X, DM42, HP11C, HP48G, HP97
rprosperi
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by rprosperi »

dlachieze wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:44 pm
Bob, do you know how the card reader ROM is detected by the DM41X software?
I believe using the internal module name, so creating a new ROM with the same XROM ID would still work, but no one is going to do that, it's just not worth all the work. I'll confirm so and update if this is incorrect.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
EM41
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Re: Card reader HP-67 conversion functions

Post by EM41 »

I dont know how these hardware modules work internally but are the 7 functions not just functions like the ones in the ext function module.
If that is the case there is no problem to just load the module and avoid using the hardware commands.
I agree that completely rewriting the module just for these functions is unjustified.
HP41C (2x), HP41CV, HP41CX, DM41X β, DM41X, DM42, HP11C, HP48G, HP97
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