Source for additional MOD files

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akaTB
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by akaTB »

RAPo wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:17 pm
akaTB wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:13 pm
I really don't understand why everything made in the XXI century is expected to be open-sourced...
In the XXI century the opportunities to work together have exploded (think GitHub,GitLab). A whole lot of people come with fresh ideas and new energy to the subject if you open-source it.
I am perfectly fine with this.
I don't know what your job is, but does your employer let you open source everything you create at work? Mine doesn't, quite the contrary, as explicitly stated on my contract.

This is not a free-time project, but a business, why should they release their IP?
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    Massimo
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RAPo
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by RAPo »

I work for the government.
There are specific rules, but the guideline is: make it open. Of course you cannot present info related or prohibited by GDPR.
I was a project manager to get all the budget information for the state budget presented as open data.
There are Eu guidelines that data should be in a reusable form.

As for software, the are rules in the Netherlands for applying as much as possible open software and that the government makes the software that it makes open, see https://fsfe.org/news/2020/news-20200424-01.en.html.

There is no obligation for nongovernmental software, but if you keep it closed participation from a new generation op HP-enthusiasts will be limited.
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM41X: SN00496.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM42:SN06020.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,
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Walter
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by Walter »

RAPo wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:38 am
I work for the government.
There are specific rules, but the guideline is: make it open. ...
Governmental or public services are often governed by regulations that (sorry) would ruin any free enterprise quickly and certainly. I know it from working in both areas for many years. Experimental evidence is that employees having experienced one area exclusively in their career can hardly even imagine the boundary conditions and objectives in the other one.
DM42 SN: 00041 β
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-35S, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L
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akaTB
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by akaTB »

RAPo wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:38 am
There is no obligation for nongovernmental software, but if you keep it closed participation from a new generation op HP-enthusiasts will be limited.
Reusable data, yes, and rightly so.

As far as the 41 ecosystem is concerned, well, everything is already disclosed, and since a few years.
New generations will bring new ideas, and new implementations, not necessarily reuse SM's platform.

We already witnessed this during the past 20 years: MLDL2000, 41CL, Clonix/NoVram, NP41, DM41L, DM41X... and the countless software only solutions.
I* don't see this as a real problem. The architecture has already been reimplemented, enhanced, exploited.
Much more than any other calculator from HP.

* YMMV, of course... ;)
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jonmoore
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by jonmoore »

RAPo wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:38 am

There is no obligation for nongovernmental software, but if you keep it closed participation from a new generation op HP-enthusiasts will be limited.
I must admit, the more you post your objections ref the 41x emulation platform not being open sorce, the harder it's become for me to understand your position. The 41 ecosystem is to all intents and purposes an open system, particularly with regards to 'open data'/content.

However, the 41 community is based on mutual respect. Study the excellent PDF documentation of 'Pacs' such as SandMath, SandMatrix, 41Z etc, etc. You'll see that much as Ángel Martin is responsible for the overriding packages, his work is based on the efforts of multiple authors (all of whom he credits) and in many cases he goes to the extra effort of converting their comparatively slow FOCAL programs to more perfomant MCode ones.

Sure I can see a few DM42 owners being miffed that they can't effectively run DM42, WP43c and DM41x on the same hardware without having to utilise overlays/stickers (if a developer choose to recreate DM41x for the 42 key layout). But I really don't see the advantages of making the base emulation layer open source. And when push comes to shove, there's nothing stopping a talented developer taking one of the other 41 emulation platforms that are open source and creating a bespoke solution for the DM platform - but it's obviously going to involve more work.

I've been an active member of the open source community since it's earliest days as I cut my teeth on UNIX systems back in the 80's but I really don't see how the 21st century has anything special about it with regards to open source projects. Social media channels may have changed over the years but the creaky bare bones bulletin boards of the 80's were the engine room of open source projects in no different manner than current social channels.
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RAPo
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by RAPo »

jonmoore wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:29 pm
I must admit, the more you post your objections ref the 41x emulation platform not being open sorce, the harder it's become for me to understand your position. The 41 ecosystem is to all intents and purposes an open system, particularly with regards to 'open data'/content.

However, the 41 community is based on mutual respect. Study the excellent PDF documentation of 'Pacs' such as SandMath, SandMatrix, 41Z etc, etc. You'll see that ch as Ángel Martin is responsible for the overriding packages, his work is based on the efforts of multiple authors (all of whom he credits) and in many cases he goes to the extra effort of converting their comparatively slow FOCAL programs to more perfomant MCode ones.

Sure I can see a few DM42 owners being miffed that they can't effectively run DM42, WP43c and DM41x on the same hardware without having to utilise overlays/stickers (if a developer choose to recreate DM41x for the 42 key layout). But I really don't see the advantages of making the base emulation layer open source. And when push comes to shove, there's nothing stopping a talented developer taking one of the other 41 emulation platforms that are open source and creating a bespoke solution for the DM platform - but it's obviously going to involve more work.

I've been an active member of the open source community since it's earliest days as I cut my teeth on UNIX systems back in the 80's but I really don't see how the 21st century has anything special about it with regards to open source projects. Social media channels may have changed over the years but the creaky bare bones bulletin boards of the 80's were the engine room of open source projects in no different manner than current social channels.
I think there are two replies woven into one at the moment. First of all, I was asked what my profession was, I gave an answer based on the current rules in the Netherlands and my professional involvement As said those rules are for the government not for other use or broader use. So please don't look in that post anything more than an honest answer, certainly no argument for making HP41X more open or not.

Second: I *asked* if things could be open source e.g. can we make our own OS-roms or not. That question is as far as I see a legitimate question to be asked. I can Iive with any answer and if there is disappointment at my side that is my problem.

But if we as a group (not only the sellers) are really interested in seeing many more years of HP41 pleasure and involvement a comparison to the work of Thomas on free42 and the rules applied there is something that cannot be easily dismissed.
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM41X: SN00496.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM42:SN06020.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,
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akaTB
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by akaTB »

RAPo wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:14 pm
a comparison to the work of Thomas on free42 and the rules applied there is something that cannot be easily dismissed.
Another quarrel about which license should be preferred, and what it asks to abide to, is just what I was waiting for...
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Mark Hardman
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by Mark Hardman »

akaTB wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm
Another quarrel about which license should be preferred, and what it asks to abide to, is just what I was waiting for...
Your statement here oozes sarcasm and expresses my sentiments exactly.

As for the use of the term "quarrel", I would prefer to replace it with "bloody and extended ground war".
DM42: β00043, β00065, 00357 / DM41X: β00054, 00445
DM10L: 017/100, DM11L: 00121, DM12L: 02005, DM15L: 00523, DM16L: 00008, DM41L: 00111
rprosperi
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by rprosperi »

An updated version of the .zip file with Angels modules has been posted on the support site.

http://www.swissmicros.com/dm41x/fat/AM ... 200507.zip

This includes the recently updated Warp_core, LIB4 plus 2 new modules described in other recent posts.

Enjoy!
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
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akaTB
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Re: Source for additional MOD files

Post by akaTB »

rprosperi wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 5:47 pm
An updated version of the .zip file with Angels modules has been posted on the support site.

http://www.swissmicros.com/dm41x/fat/AM ... 200507.zip

This includes the recently updated Warp_core, LIB4 plus 2 new modules described in other recent posts.

Enjoy!
Danke!
Greetings,
    Massimo
ajcaton
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