[SOLVED] Debugging printing to HP82240B

Discussion about the new DM41X calculator
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moonwalker
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[SOLVED] Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by moonwalker »

I just got my DM41X in the mail today, and one of the first things I tried is coupling it with my HP 82240B printer. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work. I plugged in printer module, verified flag 55 is set, set flag 21. I admit I don't have any prior experience with original HP-41C(V/X), but my understanding from reading the manuals is that should be sufficient for VIEW or XEQ AVIEW to end up sending contents of registers (or alpha) to the printer. However, nothing seems to happen.

I have run self-test on the printer, that part appears to be working fine. Digging through the manuals for the original HP-41C(V/X), HP-IL, original printer for HP-41C, and HP 82240B I can't seem to find anything useful for me to figure out why my setup doesn't work, but at this point I can think of four possibilities:
1. My HP 82240B has a faulty IR receiver
2. My DM41X has a faulty IR transmitter
3. The alignment between DM41X and HP82240B needs to be more precise than what I had experience with in the past and I'm simply not aligning them correctly.
4. I missed some setup step or doing something wrong trying to get anything to print.

I really hope it's #4 or at least #3 and not a hardware failure on either device, so if anyone can provide me some troubleshooting tips or otherwise point me in the right direction I'd greatly appreciate it.
Last edited by moonwalker on Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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rprosperi
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Re: Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by rprosperi »

An easy way to check the IR transmitter on the 41X is to view the IR while "printing'" using your phone's camera; usually you can see the flicker of the LED as the camera picks-up the IR activity. So just do something like XEQ "PRP" "PROGNAME" to print a program listing so you can have an extended period of IR activity to check. Most likely it's OK.

Alignment does not have to be too precise, it works well for any reasonably well-aimed use.

How far away are you holding the 41X? it does not need to very close, but it works best if within a few inches.

Do you have any other HP machines you can use to verify the printer? Most Pioneers (17B, 17BII, 20S, 27S) or Charlemagne (28C, 28S, 18C, 19B, 19BII) support printing.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
dlachieze
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Re: Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by dlachieze »

I just tested with my DM41X and 82240B. I plugged the Thermal Printer module, it shows up in page 6 in the Module ROM Map. I checked the flags: 21 and 55 were set. On the SI view I have PRN:MAN indicating that the printer is present in Manual mode. Then VIEW or AVIEW are printing the corresponding registers.

Here is my set-up showing the position and distance between the DM41X and the 82240B:

Image
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
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moonwalker
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Re: Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by moonwalker »

Thank you for the replies so far.

I guess I'll need to load some lengthy program so I can run XEQ "PRP" "PROGNAME". I'll try that this evening and see if the calculator is sending the data.

I kept somewhere between one and two inches of distance between the two machines, though I kept the calculator a bit more to the left than what's on dlachieze's photo.

Unfortunately, I don't own any other HP hardware, not anything with IR transmitter anyway. I think several of my old ThinkPads have IR transceivers (from 755CD through A31p), and I think I have IR transceiver on several of my (still working) old phones - from Siemens S55 through HTC TyTN. I assume due to software limitation there would be no way to test printing from the phones. While I don't have any software installed on any of my ThinkPads right now, I could find a few spare hard drives and get them up and running, if this can help testing the printer, assuming the HP82240B is supposed to be compliant with either IrDA 1.0 or IrDA 1.1 specification.
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moonwalker
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Re: Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by moonwalker »

K, I can see the IR LED on the calculator lights up in purple in my phone camera. I adjusted position, laying both flat on my desk about 2-3 inches apart, right edges of printer and calculator aligned. Entered program in viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2784, switched to normal mode, entered XEQ PRP PS. The screen shows PRP PS for several seconds, then goes back to showing X, but printer doesn't seem to react in any way. Any suggestions on how I can verify the printer doesn't have a broken IR receiver?
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rprosperi
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Re: Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by rprosperi »

It sure seems like it's it the printer IR...

Where are you located? Do you have any friends located nearby that might have an HP machine you could test with?

If you're in US, if you mail it to me, I'd be happy to check it out... or if you leave near NY, could possibly meet to do the same.

I've been in IR since the 90's in product development using ASK and later IrDA, so I've played a LOT with these toys, but have never seen any success getting something else (e.g. a ThinkPad) to print on this printer. Even other IrDA products such as Sharp Zaurus and Newtons don't because they use very different protocols.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
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moonwalker
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Re: Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by moonwalker »

rprosperi wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:32 am
It sure seems like it's it the printer IR...
Indeed...
rprosperi wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:32 am
Where are you located? Do you have any friends located nearby that might have an HP machine you could test with?
No, I don't have any nearby friends who are into retro computing or have stash of vintage hardware.
rprosperi wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:32 am
If you're in US, if you mail it to me, I'd be happy to check it out... or if you leave near NY, could possibly meet to do the same.
Appreciate the offer. I'm in Pacific Northwest, so it's only mail for me.
rprosperi wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:32 am
I've been in IR since the 90's in product development using ASK and later IrDA, so I've played a LOT with these toys, but have never seen any success getting something else (e.g. a ThinkPad) to print on this printer. Even other IrDA products such as Sharp Zaurus and Newtons don't because they use very different protocols.
Yeah, I've already found out that HP printer protocol is its own unique snowflake.

All of that said, I have figured out what the problem was. Turns out one of the original owners of the printer modified it. Specifically, for some reason they unsoldered the IR receiver and moved it to the back, in place of PSU connector. I didn't recognize that black plug in place of PSU socket as an IR receiver, but was wondering what it was. Once I opened up the printer, saw the cut power wires, and a set of wires going from where I'd expect an IR receiver to where PSU socket is supposed to be - everything clicked.

BTW, 0.6s printer delay seems to work well enough for my calculator and printer combination to print out a program about half a hundred steps long with no issues.
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rprosperi
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Re: [SOLVED] Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by rprosperi »

Glad it's resolved and you have a working unit.

Does the printer have a label on it from another company? This printer was OEM'd by HP to a few other companies and sold under those labels, and one of them moved the IR window to the back side as the printer was installed in/on some other equipment where the front of the unit was not accessible, thus requiring users to access the IR window from the back side.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
grsbanks
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Re: [SOLVED] Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by grsbanks »

rprosperi wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:29 pm
Does the printer have a label on it from another company? This printer was OEM'd by HP to a few other companies and sold under those labels, and one of them moved the IR window to the back side as the printer was installed in/on some other equipment where the front of the unit was not accessible, thus requiring users to access the IR window from the back side.
"OSI Security Services" is one such OEM. I bought one of those off ebay a while ago, immediately noticed the mod and unmodded it, albeit without replacing the original barrel connector for the external power source. It has worked a treat since then.
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moonwalker
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Re: [SOLVED] Debugging printing to HP82240B

Post by moonwalker »

grsbanks wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:53 pm
"OSI Security Services" is one such OEM.
Indeed. However, I'd like to not only move back the IR receiver, but also restore the the PSU socket. Any suggestions on parts I'd need to get for that? I.e., if I'm not mistaken HP82240B uses typical barrel connector for PSU, but I can't seem to find much info on connector size and polarity. Also, any suggestions on IR receiver itself? I'll try using one of the suggestions to remove hot glue from plastic, but I'd like a backup option in case my attempts end up damaging the receiver.

P.S.: Found https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwra ... ead=105354 mentioning PSU socket dimensions, though no mention of polarity.
P.P.S.: Ah, there is supposed to be a bridge rectifier, so polarity shouldn't matter! That's certainly nice. Now all I need is IR receiver part in case I damage it during "liberation" from the hot glue gunk.
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