Request for feature: alternate font

Discussion about the new DM41X calculator
toml_12953
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by toml_12953 »

vgoudreault wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:08 pm
Peet wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:45 am
What I don't like are comments which speak against the original font without or with wrong arguments instead of suggesting an alternative and explaining their benefits.

Kindly indicate where someone did that.


CBVG
You said: "The emulated HP41 font only 'advantage' is an air of nostalgia, and that is done at the expense of enhanced readability and usability; skeuomorphism plain and simple."

That looks like speaking against the original font to me although you did suggest an alternative.
Tom L

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vgoudreault
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by vgoudreault »

I dispute your interpretation.

I did not speak against the original font of the HP41, but described the emulation thereof on the DM41X as one offering no advantage in terms of sharpness and contrast (assuming that the HP41's 14 segment LCD character is indeed considered better in terms of contrast) since it uses the exact same dot matrix screen as the DM42.
And that the readability of an HP41 original font, in its emulated form, is inferior to that which is possible on the DM41X screen, where each character can be on a matrix of 30 by 18 pixels.

The HP41 screen was state of the art in 1979. There has been improvements after, and the very next product line launched after the HP-41 with alpha numeric display was the HP-75, and it used dots (with characters on 7 by 5 matrix). Apparently, driving up to 35 elements instead of 14 was seen as an improvement in terms of flexibility.

The pseudo HP41 font is therefore having all the limitations that are reportedly coming from the dot matrix screen approach, and none of the advantage, unless someone was to claim that this font is, in itself, superior to the DejaVu Sans Mono (or whatever approaching font actually used in the DM42). So here is a challenge for anyone who prefer the HP41 font:

download this http://legionfonts.com/fonts/hp41-character-set

and let us all know how much better it makes everything.
Peet
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by Peet »

toml_12953 wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:05 am
... although you did suggest an alternative.
That part is not entirely correct. The DM42 font was already suggested several times six months ago (by the way, also by me).
vgoudreault wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:03 am
Apparently, driving up to 35 elements instead of 14 was seen as an improvement in terms of flexibility.
No, not "apparently" - this is only you're assumption, maybe a pixeldisplay in this wide was cheaper than a segment one. More likely, however, is pixel-by-pixel side-scrolling or the need for more different characters was the reason.

Again: There is no point in disparaging the original font! Yes, there are people who agree and others who disagree. But what's the reason, besides a sensless controversy?
My programmable calculators - former: CBM PR100, HP41CV, HP28S, HP11C - current: HP48G(+), HP35S, DM41X, DM42
vgoudreault
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by vgoudreault »

Peet wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:19 am
vgoudreault wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:03 am
Apparently, driving up to 35 elements instead of 14 was seen as an improvement in terms of flexibility.
No, not "apparently" - this is only you're assumption, maybe a pixeldisplay in this wide was cheaper than a segment one. More likely, however, is pixel-by-pixel side-scrolling or the need for more different characters was the reason.
I beg to differ. In the case of the HP-75C introduced in 1982, it can be seen on some pictures that the active areas (those with pixels that could be turned clear or dark) do not cover the entire display, a 'shadow' of sort indicates there was an inactive gap separating each character matrix; scroll could not be done pixel by pixel but character by character. The HP-71B, introduced two years later, seems to have a single continuous active area, and could have been able to do smooth scrolling at the pixel level.

And the "need for more different characters" is pretty much the definition of flexibility.
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millerjs
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by millerjs »

I truly do not understand all the drama here. All (most of us) are asking for here is the mere option to change the font. No one wants to take the original away from anyone.

Personally, I think these screens are absolutely beautiful and capable of far more than what this font is giving us - in my opinion this font is holding back the screen.
Peet
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by Peet »

millerjs wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:25 am
All (most of us) are asking for here is the mere option to change the font.
this topic already ended with the second posting.
millerjs wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:25 am
Personally, I think these screens are absolutely beautiful and capable of far more than what this font is giving us - in my opinion this font is holding back the screen.
interesting claim, but I doubt it. I am convinced, simulating the original segment font with diagonal segments and circular dots pushes the display to the limit. If you think, you can create and show us a better and more suitable font - take a look at posting #5 (by walter).
My programmable calculators - former: CBM PR100, HP41CV, HP28S, HP11C - current: HP48G(+), HP35S, DM41X, DM42
mpfudge
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Re: Request for feature: alternate font

Post by mpfudge »

I would love to have an alternative font. My vision issues make the segmented font very difficult to read for me. I would love to get one, but with not having an option for a more readable font, I don't see the point.

The 41X uses fonts that are not segmented in many places.

This suggestion has my vote.

Michael
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