The platform is the engine, software its petrol, their combination is power. More ROMs give more power.
Alas, without tyres (= manuals) it won't move, It makes "brmm-brrrmmm" and that's it.
(Just a side note, what moves a car? The force from the engine, the tyres, the street, something else? Little hint, keep all the same but replace the road by ice. So in this allegory it also needs a user who knows to drive the bus.)
There are plenty of ROMs available here, the manuals are elsewhere. Those coming form HP are no problem, hp41.org and other collections offer them as scans for nothing. Most third party ROMs also come with some kind of manual (only about two dozen are undocumented up to now). However there is a ZIP containing 85 MOD files -- but not a single PDF. Why? For what reason? Just laziness? Or is it swissmicros principal of operation? We offer hardware, with firmware, how to use it -- ask Eisenhower.
On hp41.org I find a list showing 93 items from Ángel Martin. Alas only in few cases it is possible to match the ROM naming (or MOD containing the ROM) with an entry in the list. In addition there are less MODs in the ZIP than items in the list, or is the discrepancy even worse? Which collection is up to date? In the ZIP no file is older than Sept. 2019, in the majority those on hp41.org are much older. I would appreciate it if ROMs or MODs are kept together with the description PDF.
I know, the list is long and the days are short. But no job is done without informing the recipient. May be Ángel or those who praise so loudly his oeuvre are able to prepare at least a table showning MOD and where to find its PDF. Thank you.
BTW, this is not only to make his ROMs more useful, it is also some kind of respect for the original authors, not all routines in Ángel's ROMs are his own work.
no ROM no fun
-
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:01 am
- Location: France
Re: no ROM no fun
Here you can find a list of all known modules for the hp41 :
http://www.hp-collection.org/41database.html
But there is no link for downloading the module nor the documentation.
http://www.hp-collection.org/41database.html
But there is no link for downloading the module nor the documentation.
DM15L - DM42 - DM41x
Re: no ROM no fun
Nice! Some more "brmm-brrrmmm"bernouilli wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:22 amHere you can find a list of all known modules for the hp41: [...]
It is what it is.But there is no link for downloading the module nor the documentation.
Re: no ROM no fun
Beware of diesel in the petrol tank!Amphitryon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:48 amThe platform is the engine, software its petrol, their combination is power. More ROMs give more power.
Coming from the HP41CV, I am not completely familiar with the extended functions and OS extensions of the "modern times".
Although I knew some of the functions of CCD-, Time- and X-Function-ROM, I did not own any of them. But with a card reader, printer and math module i was familiar with modules an CAT 2.
With the Collections from MoHPC and HP41.org you now have access to an incredible number of ROMs and programs. Even with instructions, you can hardly get an overview. Some modules are well documented, some bad, others not at all. Some modules are clones of others, others are outdated versions with different names. One af my biggest issues is to understand which ROMs are redundant and which are obsolete.
It seems that many functions of the legendary CCD-ROM have already been taken over by HP in the X-Functions and that many user ROMs (e.g. AM-OSX) also contain these functions. There are also many competing versions. Again, even with instructions, you can hardly get an overview.
So I look at the collection like a library or a shop, there are 1000 items but I only look at the few that seem to make sense to me.
My programmable calculators - former: CBM PR100, HP41CV, HP28S, HP11C - current: HP48G(256kB), HP35S, Prime, DM41X, DM42
Re: no ROM no fun
The 1000 items remind me the saying about consulters: they know so many fantastic positions, satisfaction guaranteed, but thyself never have sex
Similar with the plug-in ROMs, 'make sense' is something different if you just collect it or really use it. There are collectors (not all) unable to calculate.
My intention for the op is to trigger the ROM distributors to put some effort in those collector items to make them useful. In addition, it is quite ungentlemanly to copy software and distribute it without the accompanying description.
Well, reading my append befor I hit 'submit' I doubt if it makes sense. How may I expect a solution from those who are part of the problem
Last edited by Amphitryon on Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: no ROM no fun
Wow, not a day in and already complaining badly.
I'm sure someone will find everything you need, print it and send it to you.
I'm sure someone will find everything you need, print it and send it to you.
Greetings,
Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong Casted in gold
Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong Casted in gold
Re: no ROM no fun
The various modules in the curated collections you've found have been created over many years by fans and users, putting in lots of hard work and generosity, so that other users, like you, have the option of enjoying the benefits of exploring and using the modules they've found or purchased. Most often, the source is a module purchased either standalone or inserted in a machine purchased from eBay, or inherited from a family member, etc. and these rarely come with documentation which has been lost or discarded long before they got the item, after all it's been 35-40 years. Nevertheless, their inclination and efforts were to share what they acquired with other users, often after much work trying to locate original authors or manuals in online archives or other sources, but concluding, correctly in my view, that it's better to share something, even if incomplete, with the hope that someone may explore it and provide some answers, or that other resources may be found and shared in the future.Amphitryon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:09 am
Similar with the plug-in ROMs, 'make sense' is something different if you just collect it or really use it. There are collectors (no all) unable to calculate.
My intention for the op is to trigger the ROM distributors to put some effort in those collector items to make them useful. In addition, it is quite ungentlemanly to copy software and distribute it without the accompanying description.
I can think of 2 possible solutions for the problems as you state them:
a. Simply discard the collections that you've found; as they're incomplete and seemingly useless to you, nothing is lost
b. Become part of the solution! Instead of whining about the lack of complete items, help to locate some of it and share it, both to pay back predecessors that have done so much work for you to date, but also for future fans, so that what they find when they come looking is more complete, and a bit more gentlemanly.
--bob p
DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
-
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:19 pm
Re: no ROM no fun
If this ticks you off so much then I suggest you take this up with that site's webmaster. Most of us just enjoy and are grateful for the information on the site.Amphitryon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:48 am
On hp41.org I find a list showing 93 items from Ángel Martin. Alas only in few cases it is possible to match the ROM naming (or MOD containing the ROM) with an entry in the list. In addition there are less MODs in the ZIP than items in the list, or is the discrepancy even worse? Which collection is up to date? In the ZIP no file is older than Sept. 2019, in the majority those on hp41.org are much older. I would appreciate it if ROMs or MODs are kept together with the description PDF.
What's your point exactly? Complaining that there's not documentation for everything or the disorganized (?) presentation of the site??Amphitryon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:48 amI know, the list is long and the days are short. But no job is done without informing the recipient. May be Ángel or those who praise so loudly his oeuvre are able to prepare at least a table showning MOD and where to find its PDF. Thank you.
BTW, this is not only to make his ROMs more useful, it is also some kind of respect for the original authors, not all routines in Ángel's ROMs are his own work.
It pays off to do a small web searching. Most of my modules are well-documented here: http://www.systemyde.com/hp41/documents.html
Life is short, the ROM is full.
Re: no ROM no fun
Someone who wants to do research could dig into this and document the evolution of ROMs. For example, the CCD could be discussed in depth and how it has transformed into other single page modules, part of it went to the Advantage module and so forth.
You could study how unit conversions came about, how they work and where they are implemented.
In fact, multiple people could do this. You can have a Wiki, or write a pdf in some simple markup language and allow people to contribute to it on Github/lab or your choice. That why it could transform into basically a book. As long as there are some that like to take a serious attempt at it, I am sure people will chip in with additional knowledge.
It is a good project for someone inclined and would be a great asset to the community.
In reality, you will not need 500 modules, you will probably find 5-10 that you use and you may slowly explore that set over time. Sometimes you might be inclined to play with a particular module out of curiosity.
I agree with that the information may be a bit spread out and sometimes thin. To give some help with my modules, they are all on Github. All releases are there with documentation. If you want to, you can press the Watch button and set up that you want notifications whenever I make a release. You can also contribute to them if you like to. The only module that lacks documentation is boost41, but I am working on that, stay tuned.
If you like any of them, please press the star button, that way they may end up going to the Arctic Code Vault program the next time.
References:
https://github.com/hth313/ladybug/releases
https://github.com/hth313/OS4/releases
https://github.com/hth313/boost41/releases
https://archiveprogram.github.com/
You could study how unit conversions came about, how they work and where they are implemented.
In fact, multiple people could do this. You can have a Wiki, or write a pdf in some simple markup language and allow people to contribute to it on Github/lab or your choice. That why it could transform into basically a book. As long as there are some that like to take a serious attempt at it, I am sure people will chip in with additional knowledge.
It is a good project for someone inclined and would be a great asset to the community.
In reality, you will not need 500 modules, you will probably find 5-10 that you use and you may slowly explore that set over time. Sometimes you might be inclined to play with a particular module out of curiosity.
I agree with that the information may be a bit spread out and sometimes thin. To give some help with my modules, they are all on Github. All releases are there with documentation. If you want to, you can press the Watch button and set up that you want notifications whenever I make a release. You can also contribute to them if you like to. The only module that lacks documentation is boost41, but I am working on that, stay tuned.
If you like any of them, please press the star button, that way they may end up going to the Arctic Code Vault program the next time.
References:
https://github.com/hth313/ladybug/releases
https://github.com/hth313/OS4/releases
https://github.com/hth313/boost41/releases
https://archiveprogram.github.com/
Re: no ROM no fun
It is not Warren's site, it is here @swissmicros where your ROMs are offered completely w/o manuals.Ángel Martin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:44 pmIf this ticks you off so much then I suggest you take this up with that site's webmaster.Amphitryon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:48 amI would appreciate it if ROMs or MODs are kept together with the description PDF.
Exactly this two points, you got it. ROMs here, for manuals (if any) look elsewhere, good luck.What's your point exactly? Complaining that there's not documentation for everything or the disorganized (?) presentation of the site??
Is that really your goal, or part of the game, get users bussy searching for manuals? Happy Easter all year?It pays off to do a small web searching.
And the rest of it? Listen, I find my programs with changed global alpha labels on one of the MOD files on the site of swissmicros, on your request I did send it once to you together with the manual. What is your problem not to distribute this manual together with my programs? (You distribute it in public so I ask you also in public and not in PM.)Most of my modules are well-documented here: ...
Nice, tnx 4 the kind hint. Sounds as polite as 'buy, sell, or get out of the way.' Even less.Life is short, the ROM is full.