After extensive use: The keyboard

Discussion about the new DM41X calculator
toml_12953
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by toml_12953 »

jonmoore wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:18 am

Very interesting Geoff. I've seen similar in the relatively few HP calculators I've home serviced (Spice, Voyager and 48 series) but wasn't aware that it was a universal HP standard.
That was one of the selling points of both HP and TI in their brochures during "The Great Calculator Wars" of the mid-to-late '70s
Tom L

If I buy someone a drink to congratulate them, is it a Mazel Tov cocktail?

DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM41X SN: 00506 (Shipping)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)
isene
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by isene »

Seeing the answers in here make me think that a product shipped by SwissMicros should not rely on the buyer being a hardware wiz needing to open up the product and do some magic before it is practical to use.

I am crossing my fingers that SM will do the needed magic Before they ship the final DM41X.
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Walter
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by Walter »

isene wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:53 am
Seeing the answers in here make me think that a product shipped by SwissMicros should not rely on the buyer being a hardware wiz needing to open up the product and do some magic before it is practical to use.

I am crossing my fingers that SM will do the needed magic Before they ship the final DM41X.
111 +

This magic shall apply to both the DM41X and the DM42 (and the forthcoming WP43S) since these share an identical hardware platform AFAIK.
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L
anetzer
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by anetzer »

isene wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 3:28 pm
There should be no way a keystroke will not register when I press a key.
You are addressing a very important issue here. I have entered a packet of programs of 1000+ steps to do some evaluation of the feel the machine gives. It is - I have to mention - a rather unused and therefore clean calc.

I was quite annoyed to find myself literally hacking away at the keyboard with cramped fingers to make sure no keystroke is missed.

An otherwise outstandingly engineered product that still lacks the smooth quality of HP keyboards.

How would the other users judge the DM41X/DM42 keyboards in comparison to an HP35S? (I specifically mention this calc, because that is what corporate money can buy out of asian factories these days...)
cdmackay
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by cdmackay »

I don't particularly like my 35S, but the keyboard is fine: I cannot reproduce a single missed keystroke, no matter how I try. Every time, if there is a click, there's a keystroke. I've had many dozens of scientific calcs, over 40 years, and never had a single one that missed keystrokes.

On my DM41X, unless I press quite hard, a small, but non-zero, number of presses result in a click, but no press registered by the calc. It's trivial to reproduce, if you press gently.

Oddly, as I've no doubt bored everyone to death with already, my DM42 is now perfect: I cannot reproduce this issue there at all. Yet it used to be bad; replacing the foil cured it completely. It may now be too loud/clacky for some people, but there are zero missed presses, so I'm happy.

Yet replacing the foil on the DM41X had no effect whatsoever. I can't understand it; I did everything the same as on my DM42.
Cambridge, UK
41CL/DM41X 12/15C/16C DM15/16 71B 17B/BII/bII+ 28S 42S/DM42 32SII 48GX 50g 35s 30b/WP34S Prime G2
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48GX
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by 48GX »

If keyboards were easy, the 49G+ would have never had a bad keyboard. I'll take the keyboard annoyance as a compromise for the outstanding calculator in my hands.
HP48GX since 1994
DM42 (2), HP42s, HP35s
Ángel Martin
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by Ángel Martin »

48GX wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:23 am
If keyboards were easy, the 49G+ would have never had a bad keyboard. I'll take the keyboard annoyance as a compromise for the outstanding calculator in my hands.
IMHO Keyboards are not difficult but (more) expensive - therefore the conundrum. The search for a reliable manufacturer seems ridden with obstacles, never mind the fact that there are also variances even if they say they'll use a proven process. Building low quantities does not help either, the perfect storm.
Last edited by Ángel Martin on Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Walter
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by Walter »

Ángel Martin wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:21 am
48GX wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:23 am
If keyboards were easy, the 49G+ would have never had a bad keyboard. I'll take the keyboard annoyance as a compromise for the outstanding calculator in my hands.
IMHO Keyboards are not difficult but (more) expensive - therefore the conundrum. The search for a reliable manufacturer seems riddle with obstacles, never mind the fact that there are also variances even if they say they'll use a proven process. Building low quantities does not help either, the perfect storm.
I concur. If you want to see reliable keyboards, disassemble a Classic (e.g. an HP-35 or -45): primitive but reliable, without any software tricks for debouncing etc. Apparently too expensive/costly nowadays, however.
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L
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chr yoko
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Re: After extensive use: The keyboard

Post by chr yoko »

Also quite typical when you transfer a production from a plant A to plan B, there are always some know how lost on the way.

Mechanical drawings as complete and clear as they can be, will never be able to make a perfect copy.
Even with the best detailled tools drawings sent together (rarely possible btw).

Also, someone from plant B will decide to change some part or tool materials, some drawing details, some tolerances for cost saving, local material availability or simply because "Plant A are stupid, right ?".

There are always plenty of little tiny details in the manufacturing and the process that only the few guys from plant A knows and those from plant B don't.

These issues will not necessarly show up at production start, all parts will look and measure ok, standard validation tests will pass ok .... but real life user durability, noise, reliability , percived quality will not be the same.

This can also happen when old guys get suddenly "redonded" or leave for urgent early retirement without having spent some years to teach their replacement ...
DM41L SN01063 - DM42 SN05658 - DM15L SN20438 - DM41X SN00173
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