New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
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BruceH
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 2:39 am

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by BruceH »

DA74254 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:45 pm
BruceH wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:06 pm
DA74254 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:56 pm
HP PPL is a flavour of Pascal, not Basic (nor C for that matter, either).
Looking at a PPL program listing, it doesn't remind me of Pascal any more than it does of BASIC or C. It doesn't really remind me of any one particular language, tbh.
http://www.hp-prime.de/en/category/10-programming
Moravia, understandably, want to 'big-up' the Prime.

Back when the Prime was launched PPL was decribed as “takes cues from pascal”.
redglyph
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:45 am

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by redglyph »

I have to agree that it doesn't have much to do with Pascal, except a few keywords like BEGIN and END, and the ':=' assignment token. It doesn't really matter, though.
Bill K. - USA
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:49 pm

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by Bill K. - USA »

fra04 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:01 pm
Thank you very much Bill, and also the others who answered my questions. Sorry, but I could write this post only now, because I was quite busy the previous weeks, due to the many school tests I had. Thank you Bill for telling me your experience, which I found very useful to understand a little bit what I'm going to do next year. I believe that hearing former students' experiences can be really helpful for future ones!
Now, I've seen dm32 is just came out, and, despite its fewer programming capabilities, it costs even more than dm42. So the choice is likely between hp 15c and dm42. By searching in university's website I found the list of the exams I'll take. As you wrote before, numeric calculations will be quite simple, so hp 15c should be enough. But, given the price of 129,99 euros plus shipping costs, well, is it really worth it? I would not want to buy the revival of an old calculator, which was created especially for collectors, but a good, new calculator. That is my fear. What do you think about?
I would have also another question: I'm really interested in RPN calculators, so I could also spare some more money to buy the dm42, which, I'm sure, I would spend the entire summer holidays on (if I bought it). I know, the second one is far better in programming, but what could I do with a dm42 which I could not on hp 15c? Could you give me some examples?
If I were just at the start of my career and going into physics, I believe I would want two calculators:
--One to grab and go, for everyday calculations: square roots, trig, polar/rect conversions, complex numbers, exponents and logs, hyperbolic, radian to degree conversions, h.ms to h.d, standard deviations on small data sets, and some simple programming for quick-and-dirty tests (like running a small program 100 times: just 10 to 40 lines), finding the zeroes of functions numerically and doing some numerical integration.
--The HP Prime: for using its CAS solving ability, for collecting experimental data in its spreadsheet and numerical analysis, for graphing 2D and 3D plots, for doing matrices.

A few considerations:
--Why not just one calculator? Because the grab-and-go calculator won't have all the overhead of far advanced calculators to mess with: it can be optimized for keypress operation--quick and easy. Sure, the HP Prime can do everything a grab-and-go calculator can, but I much prefer the simplicity of my HP-15C when doing the first type of calculations. (I have a Swiss Army knife, but I rarely lug it with me: a smaller pocketknife would be preferred the vast majority of the time.)
--You're at the start of your career, so you want calculator lines that'll be available across your working career. This goal would pull me more toward Swiss Micros, the HP Prime, and TI calculators lines, and away from the no-longer-being-built HP calculators.
--How important is RPN? I love it for the grab-and-go calculator, but I don't think it's necessary with the Prime-level calculator. (And you can live without it, if you had to. Everyone on this forum is biased toward RPN--and with reason IMO--but many other calculator users dislike it.)

For the Prime-level calculator, RPN is much less important: you're basically using the apps, and I've found RPN doesn't really work well with CAS functions anyway. So the TI-Nspire CX II CAS is another option, but its screen isn't touch, and its keys aren't as nice, so I'd opt for the Prime.

For the grab-and-go calculator, that's where the choice isn't as clear. I love the HP-15C myself, but a more modern choice would give you more features, such as a multi-line display and better programming features. The two obvious RPN options for this niche are the DM32 and the DM42/WP43/C47.

I don't have the DM32 and I'm not familiar with it at all, but I know it's still being updated. I would want to know how long until its future features are fully implemented, how the final programming process will work, how long until the manual is fully updated, etc.

Regarding the DM42/WP43/C47, I have these thoughts:
--The DM42 I find a little opaque, as its functions are buried. (Go to https://www.swissmicros.com/products and look at the DM32, DM42, and DM15L images--see how in the first and last, you see all these functions listed right there on the keys--but not as many on the DM42.)
--The WP43 requires stickers on the keys, and it's not finished yet, but it does have thorough documentation.
--The C47 doesn't require stickers just a printable template, is more customizable for the user than the WP43 is, it's not finished yet, and its documentation is lacking.
C47 small.jpg
C47 small.jpg (62.28 KiB) Viewed 2204 times

A year or more from now, I think the DM32 (features all implemented, documentation finished) and C47 (documentation, purchasable templates, code further along) will be much improved, but at the moment it's IMO a tough choice, the HP-15C/DM15L/WP43 also being very valid options.

If I were cash limited, I'd either get the grab-and-go calculator now and buy the Prime-type calculator in a year or so, or I'd just get the Prime and try to make it work as my grab-and-go calculator as well (and maybe buying a cheap $20-$30 non-RPN calculator for grab-and-go calculations if I couldn't).

You have a lot of options, which is a good thing. (You could even wait and survey your fellow students to see what choices they made and why.)

Good luck to you!
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ijabbott
Posts: 253
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Location: GB-MAN

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by ijabbott »

redglyph wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:41 pm
I have to agree that it doesn't have much to do with Pascal, except a few keywords like BEGIN and END, and the ':=' assignment token. It doesn't really matter, though.
And those all came from ALGOL!
fra04
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 3:55 pm
Location: Italy

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by fra04 »

Bill K. - USA wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:00 pm
fra04 wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:01 pm
Thank you very much Bill, and also the others who answered my questions. Sorry, but I could write this post only now, because I was quite busy the previous weeks, due to the many school tests I had. Thank you Bill for telling me your experience, which I found very useful to understand a little bit what I'm going to do next year. I believe that hearing former students' experiences can be really helpful for future ones!
Now, I've seen dm32 is just came out, and, despite its fewer programming capabilities, it costs even more than dm42. So the choice is likely between hp 15c and dm42. By searching in university's website I found the list of the exams I'll take. As you wrote before, numeric calculations will be quite simple, so hp 15c should be enough. But, given the price of 129,99 euros plus shipping costs, well, is it really worth it? I would not want to buy the revival of an old calculator, which was created especially for collectors, but a good, new calculator. That is my fear. What do you think about?
I would have also another question: I'm really interested in RPN calculators, so I could also spare some more money to buy the dm42, which, I'm sure, I would spend the entire summer holidays on (if I bought it). I know, the second one is far better in programming, but what could I do with a dm42 which I could not on hp 15c? Could you give me some examples?
If I were just at the start of my career and going into physics, I believe I would want two calculators:
--One to grab and go, for everyday calculations: square roots, trig, polar/rect conversions, complex numbers, exponents and logs, hyperbolic, radian to degree conversions, h.ms to h.d, standard deviations on small data sets, and some simple programming for quick-and-dirty tests (like running a small program 100 times: just 10 to 40 lines), finding the zeroes of functions numerically and doing some numerical integration.
--The HP Prime: for using its CAS solving ability, for collecting experimental data in its spreadsheet and numerical analysis, for graphing 2D and 3D plots, for doing matrices.

A few considerations:
--Why not just one calculator? Because the grab-and-go calculator won't have all the overhead of far advanced calculators to mess with: it can be optimized for keypress operation--quick and easy. Sure, the HP Prime can do everything a grab-and-go calculator can, but I much prefer the simplicity of my HP-15C when doing the first type of calculations. (I have a Swiss Army knife, but I rarely lug it with me: a smaller pocketknife would be preferred the vast majority of the time.)
--You're at the start of your career, so you want calculator lines that'll be available across your working career. This goal would pull me more toward Swiss Micros, the HP Prime, and TI calculators lines, and away from the no-longer-being-built HP calculators.
--How important is RPN? I love it for the grab-and-go calculator, but I don't think it's necessary with the Prime-level calculator. (And you can live without it, if you had to. Everyone on this forum is biased toward RPN--and with reason IMO--but many other calculator users dislike it.)

For the Prime-level calculator, RPN is much less important: you're basically using the apps, and I've found RPN doesn't really work well with CAS functions anyway. So the TI-Nspire CX II CAS is another option, but its screen isn't touch, and its keys aren't as nice, so I'd opt for the Prime.

For the grab-and-go calculator, that's where the choice isn't as clear. I love the HP-15C myself, but a more modern choice would give you more features, such as a multi-line display and better programming features. The two obvious RPN options for this niche are the DM32 and the DM42/WP43/C47.

I don't have the DM32 and I'm not familiar with it at all, but I know it's still being updated. I would want to know how long until its future features are fully implemented, how the final programming process will work, how long until the manual is fully updated, etc.

Regarding the DM42/WP43/C47, I have these thoughts:
--The DM42 I find a little opaque, as its functions are buried. (Go to https://www.swissmicros.com/products and look at the DM32, DM42, and DM15L images--see how in the first and last, you see all these functions listed right there on the keys--but not as many on the DM42.)
--The WP43 requires stickers on the keys, and it's not finished yet, but it does have thorough documentation.
--The C47 doesn't require stickers just a printable template, is more customizable for the user than the WP43 is, it's not finished yet, and its documentation is lacking.
C47 small.jpg


A year or more from now, I think the DM32 (features all implemented, documentation finished) and C47 (documentation, purchasable templates, code further along) will be much improved, but at the moment it's IMO a tough choice, the HP-15C/DM15L/WP43 also being very valid options.

If I were cash limited, I'd either get the grab-and-go calculator now and buy the Prime-type calculator in a year or so, or I'd just get the Prime and try to make it work as my grab-and-go calculator as well (and maybe buying a cheap $20-$30 non-RPN calculator for grab-and-go calculations if I couldn't).

You have a lot of options, which is a good thing. (You could even wait and survey your fellow students to see what choices they made and why.)

Good luck to you!
Thank you Bill! I agree with you, buying two different calculators for different purposes is certainly the best choice to make! I'll buy the grab-and-go calculator before, and the HP Prime after the first classes, because the first one is IMO the most necessary.
You gave me different possibilities for the first type of calculator, and I'm really interested in DM42, which you own, if I remember correctly. I would flash it to C47, which seems a valid option. I've seen the launch video linked in the official website, and I found out that second-shift functions can be selected by double-clicking the yellow button on DM42. Obviously, I trust Swissmicros and the reliability of its keyboard, but I would have a question: could this action wear the button in a shorter period of time?
Thank you again!
DM42, Emu48, Emu71.
Bill K. - USA
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:49 pm

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by Bill K. - USA »

fra04 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:15 pm
You gave me different possibilities for the first type of calculator, and I'm really interested in DM42, which you own, if I remember correctly. I would flash it to C47, which seems a valid option. I've seen the launch video linked in the official website, and I found out that second-shift functions can be selected by double-clicking the yellow button on DM42. Obviously, I trust Swissmicros and the reliability of its keyboard, but I would have a question: could this action wear the button in a shorter period of time?
Getting the DM-42 (which, yes, I do own and like) gives you two choices, you can keep it as a DM42 or flash it to the C47 (or WP43). (Or flash it back to a DM42, etc.)

The C47 has some interesting options: for many of the keys, you can activate the blue-shift or orange-shift function of the key by long-pressing or double-pressing the key. That should remove any concerns about prematurely wearing out the yellow shift key. (Also, at some point a D47 layout may be available for the C47, and that would give you two shift keys but you might need some key caps/stickers.)

Remember also that you can try these calculators with computer simulators before you buy them.

And to recap: if you want an RPN calculator from a production line that is still being manufactured, and if you want it to have many advanced functions that are easy to access without too much complication/complexity overhead, then some primary options are the HP-15/DM15L, the DM42/WP43/C47, and the DM32 (which still has development work to go). These various choices have their own pluses and minuses, and I think the DM42/C47 is a very good option.
fra04
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 3:55 pm
Location: Italy

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by fra04 »

Thank you very much!
After the final exams I'll try the different calculators on my computer, in order to try to choose the best for me. C47 seems very interesting, but I also like the small, landscape form factor of HP 15C. What a difficult choice!
Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll post new questions soon!
For the time being I'll just try to understand these calculators as well as possible!
Thank you again!
DM42, Emu48, Emu71.
dlachieze
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm
Location: France

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by dlachieze »

Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:36 am
Getting the DM-42 (which, yes, I do own and like) gives you two choices, you can keep it as a DM42 or flash it to the C47 (or WP43).
There is a third option: flash it to a WP34S, no overlay or key stickers needed. Nigel has done a great job of mapping the WP34S functions to existing DM42 keys and menus (see the Quick Ref Guide for the menu details).
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066 - WP43: 00042
fra04
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 3:55 pm
Location: Italy

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by fra04 »

dlachieze wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:21 pm
Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:36 am
Getting the DM-42 (which, yes, I do own and like) gives you two choices, you can keep it as a DM42 or flash it to the C47 (or WP43).
There is a third option: flash it to a WP34S, no overlay or key stickers needed. Nigel has done a great job of mapping the WP34S functions to existing DM42 keys and menus (see the Quick Ref Guide for the menu details).
Thank you for your advice! This also seems a very good option!
DM42, Emu48, Emu71.
HPMike
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:01 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: New "HP"-15C Collectors Edition

Post by HPMike »

Has anyone who ordered the HP-15c Collectors Edition calculator received it ? I ordered mine from Oxford Educational Supplies back in May and was promised delivery in July, but so far I have not heard anything further from them. I see that other sellers are stating that they will not be available until August, so maybe that's the true ETA.
DM15L, S/N 00548. DM42, SN: 00159. DM41X, SN: 00973. DM32, SN 00054.
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