C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

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Bill K. - USA
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Bill K. - USA »

I'm looking for a newbie feature, and am thinking it might already exist.

As I explore the C47, I keep putting the calculator into modes I'm not sure how to back out of, whether it's fraction mode, or hexidecimal, or complex mode, or with units attached, or time mode, etc. Is there some sort of a "ClearEntry" command that can reset the calculator input so I'm back to entering straight decimal real non-fraction non-matrix non-program-entry non-alpha unitless numbers? (I'm not talking about resetting the whole calculator, but just clearing the entry mode from whatever state I happen to have put it into.) I think such a function would be valuable to use inside programs too.
Last edited by Bill K. - USA on Sun May 21, 2023 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Helix
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Location: France

Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Helix »

Out of curiosity, I’ve downloaded the C47 files to have a look at the documentation, and I can say I’m greatly disconcerted. I can’t find any doc, only an overwhelming list of 219 redundant pdf files, each being a list of functions, without explanation on how to use them. It’s not what I call a documentation, not even a quick reference guide.
I don’t have a DM42, and I don’t know how to use an HP 42s or an HP 41. Does that mean that learning the DM42 is a prerequisite to use C47, or will a full doc be available some day?
DA74254
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by DA74254 »

Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 9:48 pm
I'm looking for a newbie feature, and am thinking it might already exist.

As I explore the C47, I keep putting the calculator into modes I'm not sure how to back out of, whether it's fraction mode, or hexidecimal, or complex mode, or with units attached, or time mode, etc. Is there some sort of a "ClearEntry" command that can reset the calculator input so I'm back to entering straight decimal real non-fraction non-matrix non-program-entry non-alpha unitless numbers? (I'm not talking about resetting the whole calculator, but just clearing the entry mode from whatever state I happen to have put it into.) I think such a function would be valuable to use inside programs too.
Can it save/load state files (like DM42 and WP43)?
If so, I guess the easiest way is to just reload the state file that you have curated to be the "clean slate" startup.
Esben
DM42 SN: 00245, WP43 Pilot SN:00002, DM32 SN: 00045 (Listed in obtained order).
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Jaymos
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 9:48 pm
I'm looking for a newbie feature, and am thinking it might already exist.

As I explore the C47, I keep putting the calculator into modes I'm not sure how to back out of, whether it's fraction mode, or hexidecimal, or complex mode, or with units attached, or time mode, etc. Is there some sort of a "ClearEntry" command that can reset the calculator input so I'm back to entering straight decimal real non-fraction non-matrix non-program-entry non-alpha unitless numbers? (I'm not talking about resetting the whole calculator, but just clearing the entry mode from whatever state I happen to have put it into.) I think such a function would be valuable to use inside programs too.
The function that might help you is CLRMOD which is meant for abandoning a previous mode or setup, in order to bypass any orderly return to normal mode.

You access it by long pressing EXIT and releasing on CLRMOD. I don’t use it often but do find it useful when I use the calculator, it is in base mode for example, I let it lay and tomorrow I want to use it and I cannot then care to reset the shortinteger input using .d or cancel the alpha mode by backspacing any open input instead if using CLA and EXIT, or something like that. See it as your free get-out-if-jail card 😁.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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RJvM
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Location: Gelderland, Netherlands

Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by RJvM »

Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 2:20 am
Out of curiosity, I’ve downloaded the C47 files to have a look at the documentation, and I can say I’m greatly disconcerted. I can’t find any doc, only an overwhelming list of 219 redundant pdf files, each being a list of functions, without explanation on how to use them. It’s not what I call a documentation, not even a quick reference guide.
I don’t have a DM42, and I don’t know how to use an HP 42s or an HP 41. Does that mean that learning the DM42 is a prerequisite to use C47, or will a full doc be available some day?
The set of pdf files is meant to cover all operations of the C47 calculator without the need for any outside reference.

I sure hope the documents I created are not redundant, although the information is repeated in various lists, each ordered for a particular focus.

The most important one is the Full index, which describes every function, setting and menu and also shows where to find those.

Also very important is the set of menu descriptions, ordered by functional category, which gives more context and additional information on associated things like status bar, flags and temporary information.

Then there is a set of reference pages giving more of an explanation or overview of some technical features etc.

Admittedly, the current set is mostly a reference manual, not a user manual and certainly not a tutorial. We have some mostly outdated tutorials and they will be added to the set eventually

Please remember this is a project still very much in development, with a calculator already second to none, imho. We are a small dedicated team and I am proud to be a part of the discussions each and every day (hour and minute, I may add!).

Finally, the current documentation system is also used to support the programming effort and will be the basis for some form of on board help as well, at least that is our current thinking.
Last edited by RJvM on Sun May 21, 2023 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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RJvM
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by RJvM »

For a general introduction to the C47, the manuals that were written for the WP43 are a good starting point. C47 is a fork of WP43 because we made and are still making very different design decisions, but the common basis is large.

Many commands have a slightly different name, we added many functions, changed and added menus, but you will recognise enough, and the Owners manual is also a tutorial. Great respect for the author, Walter!
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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Jaymos
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 2:20 am
Out of curiosity, I’ve downloaded the C47 files to have a look at the documentation, and I can say I’m greatly disconcerted. I can’t find any doc, only an overwhelming list of 219 redundant pdf files, each being a list of functions, without explanation on how to use them. It’s not what I call a documentation, not even a quick reference guide.
I don’t have a DM42, and I don’t know how to use an HP 42s or an HP 41. Does that mean that learning the DM42 is a prerequisite to use C47, or will a full doc be available some day?
Rome was not built in a day😉. But it was built indeed!

Those sheets are not redundant. They are accurately documenting every single function on the calculator in a minimal but effective way which you can predict. It uses every menu as reference layout and has a very important description line for each function.

It is not to be confused with a narrative manual which does not yet exist. It is not called a manual either - it is called ‘documentation’. See that more as the technical reference.

I can understand you might have a problem with zero background. Currently you have to scratch around though: there is a readme, a wiki on GitLab, with some flashing instructions and some instructions to compile it yourself; and you can ask here, we will always help.

This is an open source project. Assuming you find the docs or the answer we give enables you to persist and get it right, your experience from zero knowledge to a working calculator may be very helpful to others in your situation. You may want want to contribute a small readme file or a page to go with Robbert’s collection, up to you.
Does that mean that learning the DM42 is a prerequisite to use C47, or will a full doc be available some day?
To get back to your OP: there is not planned to be a pre-requisite for C47. Reading on WP43 will be helpful. In addition you will have to read up on RPN. HP made a HP42S manual where many commands may be matching as HP42S is a grandparent if C47. And of course as Robbert said, you may want to look at Walter’s manual - we are a descendant of WP43 and we run on the same DM42 hardware. Walter wrote a lot on WP43. I takes 10+ or so man-years of dedication to get where he is and Robbert’s C47 reference sheets are not even 6 months old.

I’m not at my pc now but will later place some links to the above.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
H2X
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by H2X »

Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 2:20 am
Out of curiosity, I’ve downloaded the C47 files to have a look at the documentation, and I can say I’m greatly disconcerted. I can’t find any doc, only an overwhelming list of 219 redundant pdf files, each being a list of functions, without explanation on how to use them. It’s not what I call a documentation, not even a quick reference guide.
I don’t have a DM42, and I don’t know how to use an HP 42s or an HP 41. Does that mean that learning the DM42 is a prerequisite to use C47, or will a full doc be available some day?
Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be a "full doc"? I know Walter's manuals for the WP43 have been mentioned to you. Imo, they are a mammoth effort, but also quite a substantial read - the Owner's Manual alone is 351 pages and the Reference Manual is 322 pages (current versions on GitLab).

Is this what you would expect or hope for? Beware that if you answer yes, I shall expect that you are the kind of person who actually reads manuals of that size. Even then, we won't promise that we will make it for the C47, but we will warmly recommend that you read Walter's. I think you will enjoy them.

If not, what would be the size of an Owner's Manual that would actually be useful to you?

PS: A bonus question, if you don't mind - do you have experience with other RPN calculators than the ones you named specifically? If you are new to RPN, don't worry - I remember my own discovery of it as a landmark in my own mathematical journey. You have much fun ahead!
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
Helix
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Location: France

Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Helix »

Thank you very much RjvM, Jaymos and H2X for your detailed responses.
I hoped a user manual indeed, not a technical reference. My wording was inaccurate.

I’ve no doubt that creating a complete manual is a huge task, and I know that Walter’s manuals are highly praised. I take note that I should begin with them.

I will answer more specific questions.
RJvM wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 9:19 am
I sure hope the documents I created are not redundant, although the information is repeated in various lists, each ordered for a particular focus.
As a newbie to this project, I can assure you that it’s especially confusing.
Helix
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Location: France

Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Helix »

Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 10:00 am
Those sheets are not redundant. They are accurately documenting every single function on the calculator in a minimal but effective way which you can predict.
Just an example with the function LINPOL: I couldn’t find in the files how it works. I need more background. (Which is probably in the WP43 manuals...)
Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 10:00 am
This is an open source project. Assuming you find the docs or the answer we give enables you to persist and get it right, your experience from zero knowledge to a working calculator may be very helpful to others in your situation. You may want want to contribute a small readme file or a page to go with Robbert’s collection, up to you.
Thank you for your invitation, but it’s unlikely to happen, considering that writing in English requires some effort to me, and I’m not sure at this point I will investigate C47. Maybe later, when I have a DM42.
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