C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
Helix
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Helix »

H2X wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 12:53 pm
Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be a "full doc"? I know Walter's manuals for the WP43 have been mentioned to you. Imo, they are a mammoth effort, but also quite a substantial read - the Owner's Manual alone is 351 pages and the Reference Manual is 322 pages (current versions on GitLab).

Is this what you would expect or hope for? Beware that if you answer yes, I shall expect that you are the kind of person who actually reads manuals of that size. Even then, we won't promise that we will make it for the C47, but we will warmly recommend that you read Walter's. I think you will enjoy them.

If not, what would be the size of an Owner's Manual that would actually be useful to you?
Yes, I’m the kind of guy that read manuals, from cover to cover, and it’s even part of the pleasure of a new calculator. :)
I admit that this kind of manual would be ideal! If it’s not possible, then I would expect a list of differences with the WP43, along with an introduction to the calculator interface.
H2X wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 12:53 pm
PS: A bonus question, if you don't mind - do you have experience with other RPN calculators than the ones you named specifically? If you are new to RPN, don't worry - I remember my own discovery of it as a landmark in my own mathematical journey. You have much fun ahead!
My main calculator is the HP 50g, and I also know the HP 25 and the HP 67, so I have no difficulties with RPN. But jumping from the HP 67 to the C47 seems a big step.
Bill K. - USA
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:49 pm

Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Bill K. - USA »

Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 8:56 am
Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 9:48 pm
Is there some sort of a "ClearEntry" command that can reset the calculator input so I'm back to entering straight decimal real non-fraction non-matrix non-program-entry non-alpha unitless numbers?
The function that might help you is CLRMOD which is meant for abandoning a previous mode or setup, in order to bypass any orderly return to normal mode.

You access it by long pressing EXIT and releasing on CLRMOD. I don’t use it often but do find it useful when I use the calculator, it is in base mode for example, I let it lay and tomorrow I want to use it and I cannot then care to reset the shortinteger input using .d or cancel the alpha mode by backspacing any open input instead if using CLA and EXIT, or something like that. See it as your free get-out-if-jail card 😁.
Super! I will try that. (And I was even thinking it'd be great to be able to get to it with a long press of Exit, so you're way ahead of me!)
H2X
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by H2X »

Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:24 pm
Yes, I’m the kind of guy that read manuals, from cover to cover, and it’s even part of the pleasure of a new calculator. :)
I know what you mean! ;)
Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:24 pm
I admit that this kind of manual would be ideal! If it’s not possible, then I would expect a list of differences with the WP43, along with an introduction to the calculator interface.
I can certainly understand where you're coming from. We will not be aspiring to recreating Walter's manuals in any shape or form. A list of differences is a fair ask, and will probably be made at some point when the time is ripe. Both C47 and WP43 are works in progress.

The most notable difference is likely to be the UI. I'm sure the single shift key has not escaped your attention, and the keyboard layout is obviously also different. We do also think rather independently in terms of features, so Walter's manuals will not be entirely accurate, but they should be relevant for many functions nevertheless.
Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:24 pm
My main calculator is the HP 50g, and I also know the HP 25 and the HP 67, so I have no difficulties with RPN. But jumping from the HP 67 to the C47 seems a big step.
Good. I don't think that you'll find the HP42S or DM42 a huge leap then. You might want to check out Thomas Okken's Free42 app if you havent't already.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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Walter
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Walter »

H2X wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:47 pm
The most notable difference is likely to be the UI. I'm sure the single shift key has not escaped your attention, and the keyboard layout is obviously also different. We do also think rather independently in terms of features, so Walter's manuals will not be entirely accurate...
Heh, heh, this is pert! :lol: WP43 manuals were never meant to describe C43 nor C47. Whoever insists on having his own UI should write his own manual, don't you think so?
H2X wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:47 pm
..., but they should be relevant for many functions nevertheless.
May well be. Though not guaranteed.
H2X wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:47 pm
Helix wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:24 pm
My main calculator is the HP 50g, and I also know the HP 25 and the HP 67, so I have no difficulties with RPN. But jumping from the HP 67 to the C47 seems a big step.
Good. I don't think that you'll find the HP42S or DM42 a huge leap then. You might want to check out Thomas Okken's Free42 app if you havent't already.
My WP43 Owner's Manual (a.k.a. OM) assumes even no prior knowledge of RPN but such knowledge will help, of course.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
H2X
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by H2X »

Walter wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 6:38 pm
H2X wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 3:47 pm
The most notable difference is likely to be the UI. I'm sure the single shift key has not escaped your attention, and the keyboard layout is obviously also different. We do also think rather independently in terms of features, so Walter's manuals will not be entirely accurate...
Heh, heh, this is pert! :lol: WP43 manuals were never meant to describe C43 nor C47. Whoever insists on having his own UI should write his own manual, don't you think so?
Nor have we any obligation or intent to follow them. I think our UI manual would be quite thin, though. I have tried to read yours. Didn't finish.

I get that not all people may necessarily like our UI - which is their prerogative, of course.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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Walter
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Walter »

Notice that perseverance and reading abilities aren't equally distributed, obviously. 8-)
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
H2X
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by H2X »

Walter wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 7:32 pm
Notice that perseverance and reading abilities aren't equally distributed, obviously. 8-)
Or maybe I got what I needed from them, so far, without reading end to end. Maybe I stopped reading about the thing, and started using the thing instead. The thing being the C47 in my case, of course. Please do note that I am speaking warmly of your work, even though I choose other things to do with my spare time.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
Bill K. - USA
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Bill K. - USA »

Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 8:56 am
The function that might help you is CLRMOD which is meant for abandoning a previous mode or setup, in order to bypass any orderly return to normal mode.

You access it by long pressing EXIT and releasing on CLRMOD. I don’t use it often but do find it useful when I use the calculator, it is in base mode for example, I let it lay and tomorrow I want to use it and I cannot then care to reset the shortinteger input using .d or cancel the alpha mode by backspacing any open input instead if using CLA and EXIT, or something like that. See it as your free get-out-if-jail card 😁.
I've played with it some, but I notice it doesn't cancel the fraction mode: I type 1.5 and I get 3/2. Is there some more comprehensive "clear input mode" function? Or would it be a possibility to also clear the fraction display mode with "CLRMOD"?

In fact I struggle with this: I get the calculator in fraction mode, and then I don't know how to get the calculator out of it. It's not intuitive for me.
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Jaymos
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 10:20 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 8:56 am
The function that might help you is CLRMOD which is meant for abandoning a previous mode or setup, in order to bypass any orderly return to normal mode.

You access it by long pressing EXIT and releasing on CLRMOD. I don’t use it often but do find it useful when I use the calculator, it is in base mode for example, I let it lay and tomorrow I want to use it and I cannot then care to reset the shortinteger input using .d or cancel the alpha mode by backspacing any open input instead if using CLA and EXIT, or something like that. See it as your free get-out-if-jail card 😁.
I've played with it some, but I notice it doesn't cancel the fraction mode: I type 1.5 and I get 3/2. Is there some more comprehensive "clear input mode" function? Or would it be a possibility to also clear the fraction display mode with "CLRMOD"?

In fact I struggle with this: I get the calculator in fraction mode, and then I don't know how to get the calculator out of it. It's not intuitive for me.
BTW, .d is the official what to get out of it.

But your point is a good one, I will make it clear fractions too - it is intended to "get out of jail".
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Our new draft program is progressing slowly and will have more flexibility in various user customs for number formatting.
20230521-23100200.bmp
20230521-23100200.bmp (12.31 KiB) Viewed 702 times
The image shows a few things:

- The settings fort he screen above were auto set from a revised "USA" regional setting.
- Manual settings overrides are possible per parameter, details later with release.
- Different group sizes in IP and FP are evident, 3 and 4 in this example.
- Different separator selections are evident in this SNAP, her in IP and FP are commas and none
- A grouping overshoot function (see the number in Z) where the obvious group size of 3 is not adhered to. The overshoot function can be selected to allow "creep" over the next grouping value, for the first group only for one digit only. There is a setting which (for example for normal 3-digit groups IPGRP=3) this settable threshold value, for example 2999 can be chosen which means that 1234 and 2888 and 2999 will be displayed without grouping, but 3,000 will be displayed with grouping. This setting can go up to 9999 for which the examples change to 8877, 9999 and 10,000. This scales to different group sizes but probably will only be used in the US context in IPGRP=3.

In the separator selection menu, we decided to give you a thin space, normal space and double space seps, and dots and what not. There are more possibilities - but I'm not making new glyphs - look in the font browser (𝑎.FN, FBR, look at the Numeric font and those are the glyphs I can use if it is requested).

Also, all sorts of strange groupings are now possible but of course, with flexibility comes controls. It is obviously not a single simplistic GAP setting anymore - that is now gone. We did spend an inordinate amount of time distilling the spec to get the new control options sensible. The code and layout isn't finished - it will be a while still due to real work interfering as usual, but it will come - as you can see the output works.
20230521-23270700.bmp
20230521-23270700.bmp (12.31 KiB) Viewed 702 times
Strange multi-group possibilities, where a fixed custom first group size can be selected, before another repeating group size on the IP side and another on the FP side can create customised separations. Here you can see what is possible with a 3 2 2 repeating rhythm.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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