C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

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Jaymos
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Pyjam wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:26 pm
I understand, but users may use overlay of their own and stickers if they want. The C47 already offer advanced options of customization. Why not the possibility to move [f] and [g] too?

Anyway, this is how I see the E47.
Quite an exciting idea!
Possibilities are endless. This is an innovative design. I assume you want to take the layout you made and apply it to C47 not to E47. The loss of the down arrow on E47 tells me that.

It will cost me to do 4 major hacks to the key system and hours to get the simulator to play with. The f ff system is not generic and is hard coded with timers like that. Since ASN cannot do the shifts and arrows, I can make a blank template for you and shift your shifts to be like E47, but you would have noticed on all our double shift layouts we do not have the f[g] and g[f] at all. That is by choice and decision. I'm not adding that. Lastly it needs more hacks to change from RCL to STO after you pressed RCL. The system does not allow that - you need to EXIT first. Hack-able but more work.

The number of hacks needed to make the system do this makes it restrictive for me. Sorry.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Pyjam
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Pyjam »

I totally understand. Surely you have more pressing things to do. Thank you for your answer.

  Optimot : The ⌥ keyboard layout optimized for French and English (ŵïþ ʃʉŋ 𝕂åʁɒꝃțɛɹṩ).
Pyjam
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Pyjam »

I am testing the use of [g] on Σ+.
It's really handy to have a shift key at the top of the keyboard in addition to the bottom one. The fingers have less movement to do. It's really a great option because on the original HP42 the yellow key it too far from the top and Fn keys. (And that’s why I’m so fond of the [f] and [g] keys on [STO] and [RCL].)

One thing to add is that double [g] should do [f] rather than canceling [g]. (And [g] followed by [f] should do [f] also rather than canceling [g] but that’s a very minor improvement.)

I’ve noticed that the timers are shorter on the Fn keys compare to the others. I think they’re good for the Fn keys (half a second) and too long for the others (a full second). Maybe 0.7s everywhere would be better. I imagine you already spent a lot of time on this topic. I’m curious to know how you came to the conclusion that two different durations are better.

One more idea: it would be great if double [STO] and double [RCL] did something, opening of VAR menu.

  Optimot : The ⌥ keyboard layout optimized for French and English (ŵïþ ʃʉŋ 𝕂åʁɒꝃțɛɹṩ).
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Jaymos
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Pyjam wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:12 pm
One thing to add is that double [g] should do [f] rather than canceling [g]. (And [g] followed by [f] should do [f] also rather than canceling [g] but that’s a very minor improvement.)
This is interesting. Basically letting g do the same as f. Sounds like a symmetrical solution to me. I will think on it. It is only an option for C47 not the double shift models, because the double shift models have shift keys directly next to one another.
I’ve noticed that the timers are shorter on the Fn keys compare to the others. I think they’re good for the Fn keys (half a second) and too long for the others (a full second). Maybe 0.7s everywhere would be better. I imagine you already spent a lot of time on this topic. I’m curious to know how you came to the conclusion that two different durations are better.
It is different sections of code using different timers, developed at different times. When you add things you tend to leave alone things that work and separately find times that work for that application.
One more idea: it would be great if double [STO] and double [RCL] did something, opening of VAR menu.
I think this is a very useful hidden key concept. I will let this simmer and think about it. It is rather difficult again - the details of a double press is a little hairy but doable. We'll discuss that.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Pyjam
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Pyjam »

Houston, we have a problem...
With Σ+ for [g], I can't enter an A from the Alpha menu. :lol:

Edit: Fortunately it works if I disable the USER mode from the Alpha menu. I am saved!

  Optimot : The ⌥ keyboard layout optimized for French and English (ŵïþ ʃʉŋ 𝕂åʁɒꝃțɛɹṩ).
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Jaymos
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Jaymos »

Pyjam wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:42 pm
Houston, we have a problem...
With Σ+ for [g], I can't enter an A from the Alpha menu. :lol:
That is a problem!

The problem is the USER mode assignment needs to be temporarily suspended automatically in alpha mode. Until fixed, you can manually switch off USER by ff F6.

The Σ+NRM assignment already is temporarily suspended in alpha entry. That works.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Pyjam
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by Pyjam »

H2X wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:32 pm
[*] COMPLEX and i may seem to yield the same result, but look closely - and try with non-zero and different values in the X and Y registers and see what happens. You can test it on the sim or with the C47 (or C43), i is on the CPX and HOME menus. Also see the docs (C47 Keyboard row 4 and C47 Keyboard row 3).
I have since installed the C47. I don't mean to criticize, but I must admit that I still don't understand the purpose of i on the keyboard. It seems to me that it is just the constant 0+i×1. It doesn't seem to do anything else. It's a value that can already be obtained in another way quite simply.
Could you give me an example of how to use it? Thank you.

  Optimot : The ⌥ keyboard layout optimized for French and English (ŵïþ ʃʉŋ 𝕂åʁɒꝃțɛɹṩ).
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by H2X »

Pyjam wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:52 pm
H2X wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:32 pm
[*] COMPLEX and i may seem to yield the same result, but look closely - and try with non-zero and different values in the X and Y registers and see what happens. You can test it on the sim or with the C47 (or C43), i is on the CPX and HOME menus. Also see the docs (C47 Keyboard row 4 and C47 Keyboard row 3).
I have since installed the C47. I don't mean to criticize, but I must admit that I still don't understand the purpose of i on the keyboard. It seems to me that it is just the constant 0+i×1. It doesn't seem to do anything else. It's a value that can already be obtained in another way quite simply.
Could you give me an example of how to use it? Thank you.
It is that, the constant i. There are things that I myself also don't understand the purpose of or need (e.g. % and Δ%), but they're there (and I want them to). I happen to like i, though - that's just my personal preference.

See viewtopic.php?p=26100#p26100
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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rudi
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by rudi »

I managed to find my modified USB cable this weekend, so now I have a C47 - yihaaa...

Wasn't there a way to use C43 layout on the C47? I've looked in the MODE and DISP menus, but can't seem to find it.
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
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Re: C43 continuous improvement --> C47 Classic single shift, replaces C43 on DM42

Post by H2X »

rudi wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:04 am
I managed to find my modified USB cable this weekend, so now I have a C47 - yihaaa...

Wasn't there a way to use C43 layout on the C47? I've looked in the MODE and DISP menus, but can't seem to find it.
Well done, Rudi! Try the KEYS menu, on the 1 key.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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