C43 based on DM41x ?

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H2X
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by H2X »

For the record, I'd love to see a two-shift layout that works better than the single-shift.

My current thinking is that what's really good (for me) with the HP-42S layout is the location of the shift key - in fact the entire lower left side from ENTER down to EXIT works very well. I can find all of them instantly, without looking and without covering the rest of the keyboard - i.e. my left thumb can rest on the shift key. I'd love to test other layouts (on a physical calculator), and I'd love to be surprised.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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Jaymos
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by Jaymos »

burkhard wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:26 am
pm42 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:22 pm
burkhard wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:06 pm
But now that C43 is intended for production (instead of WP43)
It was my understanding that the C43 was just a backup solution after SwissMicros cancelled its plan to produce the WP43s.
If they indeed build the C43 instead, 2 shift keys would be good.
I thought the story was that for varied reasons, SM decided not to make the WP43, but was going to instead switch to its branch, the C43. As I read it, most of the firmware development team was also moving to the C43 and in essence, the WP43 and C43 would swap roles, the former becoming a branch of the latter, which would assume the status of the production-intent design.

But maybe I interpreted things wrong? Would someone please clarify the current roadmap?
Let me try clarify: SM did not choose another branch to manufacture, but they cancelled the production process at the WP43 pilot stage. The Dev-team regrouped after that, because of that. SM needs to be approached again to make a community developed calculator and the C43 project will approach SM when the time is right. Until then, retrofitting options (for using C43 on SM hw) are possible and the calculator (C43 in progress) as such is usable.

(Edited for clarity in parenthesis)
Jaco Mostert
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https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Walter
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by Walter »

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:30 am
Let me try clarify: SM did not choose another branch to manufacture, but they cancelled the production process at the WP43 pilot stage. The Dev-team regrouped after that, because of that. SM needs to be approached again to make a community developed calculator and the C43 project will approach SM when the time is right. Until then, retrofitting options (for using C43 on SM hw) are possible and the calculator (C43 in progress) as such is usable.
Nitpicky remark:
SM told Ben it doesn't want to produce the WP43 after completing its pilot run. SM's reasons and course of action in this matter AFAIK them are hard to comprehend (look either psycho-logical - being the opposite of logical - or very greedy) but I don't have to understand everything. Anyway, the means to produce the WP43 are present, for any other model not yet. And based on my experience, predicting SM's further actions in this matter is beyond my abilities.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
pm42
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by pm42 »

Walter wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:18 pm
look either psycho-logical - being the opposite of logical
Hear, hear the words coming from the world expert about the subject :twisted:
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by H2X »

Please stay on topic.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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Emy
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by Emy »

H2X wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:18 pm
Please stay on topic.
This ↑. Please. Thank you.
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Walter
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by Walter »

Emy wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:15 pm
H2X wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:18 pm
Please stay on topic.
This ↑. Please. Thank you.
I concur.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
burkhard
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by burkhard »

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:30 am
burkhard wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:26 am

But maybe I interpreted things wrong? Would someone please clarify the current roadmap?
Let me try clarify: SM did not choose another branch to manufacture, but they cancelled the production process at the WP43 pilot stage. The Dev-team regrouped after that, because of that. SM needs to be approached again to make a community developed calculator and the C43 project will approach SM when the time is right. Until then, retrofitting options (for using C43 on SM hw) are possible and the calculator (C43 in progress) as such is usable.
Very clear—thank you, Jaco!

A couple of thoughts:

1. The team (including WP43-only folk) has done stellar work, and I am in awe. Nonetheless, if ever given the opportunity for production, you really should consider making a two-shift (C43AltA or similar) solution mainstream. Perhaps bring out one of those famous polls again. ;)

2. Please recognize that you guys who have been super-deep into development for years on this have grown accustomed to the multi-push single shift key. But consider how well a pirate with a peg leg can move around after a lot of practice on it. Most people would prefer two legs nonetheless! For most new users, especially those who have already spent decades on HP calculators, that multi-push single shift is a cumbersome workaround and an impediment to entry.
If I may be a tad cheeky (please don't take offense). I think you love it because it's your baby, even though it's ugly as sin. :lol:

3. Unless the keyboard is optimized, there actually is no reason to even consider to produce a C43 since a nice overlay would work just as well, wouldn't it? What's the advantage to "produce" hardware instead of an overlay—you'd merely be getting the C43 logo and the Ukrainian flags printed on. If that's it, just make an overlay and DM42 owners can go back and forth at will. It's fewer calculators SM would sell, though...

4. If there no longer is the goal of eventually producing hardware, the discussion becomes moot. One either has to accept the DM42 key layout or apply key stickers.

5. A thought: By any chance, does (or would) SM sell individual yellow-f and blue-g buttons of the right size (DM41X buttons I think would fit) for the shift keys in the C43AltA position? For people wanting a two-shift layout, they could I think just swap those in, right? That plus a nicely-printed C43AltA overlay would be lovely.
pm42
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by pm42 »

burkhard wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:24 pm
5. A thought: By any chance, does (or would) SM sell individual yellow-f and blue-g buttons of the right size (DM41X buttons I think would fit) for the shift keys in the C43AltA position? For people wanting a two-shift layout, they could I think just swap those in, right? That plus a nicely-printed C43AltA overlay would be lovely.
AFAIK, you cannot change individual buttons on the DM42/DM41X hardware. The keyboard in one piece of plastic.
burkhard
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Re: C43 based on DM41x ?

Post by burkhard »

pm42 wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:37 pm
burkhard wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:24 pm
5. A thought: By any chance, does (or would) SM sell individual yellow-f and blue-g buttons of the right size (DM41X buttons I think would fit) for the shift keys in the C43AltA position? For people wanting a two-shift layout, they could I think just swap those in, right? That plus a nicely-printed C43AltA overlay would be lovely.
AFAIK, you cannot change individual buttons on the DM42/DM41X hardware. The keyboard in one piece of plastic.
It's one piece of plastic, but the yellow and blue keys are somehow molded into that single piece‽
Wow. Is that correct? If so... never mind!
Last edited by burkhard on Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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