Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

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ben.titmus
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Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by ben.titmus »

The WP43 developers must unfortunately announce that SwissMicros no longer intend to produce a WP43 calculator. The decision has been made by SwissMicros to end the collaboration due to past and recent behaviour of Walter causing the concern that the WP43 project could negatively impact the reputation of SwissMicros.

The majority of the WP43 developers (Martin, Pauli, and Ben) have asked to join the C43 team and this has been accepted. No further development work will be done on WP43 directly by the combined C43 team who will instead increase their effort towards C43.

There will undoubtedly be a lot of questions but please be patient in waiting for answers as those involved work out what this means for their projects. Rest assured that we are dedicated to continue to bring C43 to full production quality.
HPMike
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by HPMike »

I'm curious as to where that leaves us vis-a-vis documentation specific to the C43. Up until now we've relied on the very comprehensive documentation provided by Walter for the WP43 (Owner's and Reference Manuals), but the differences between the two projects are sufficiently different to warrant it's own dedicated documentation IMO.
DM15L, S/N 00548. DM42, SN: 00159. DM41X, SN: 00973. DM32, SN 00054.
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akaTB
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by akaTB »

And when my pilot unit will be finally delivered, it will have no update path.
Thanks. :x
Greetings,
    Massimo
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burkhard
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by burkhard »

Wow, I hope everything gets ironed out. Who would imagine the narrow calculator fangeek world could have so much Sturm und Drang? :-(

I've been a big WP34S fan for years and too impatient to wait longer, recently bought, reflashed, and relabeled a DM42 to be a WP43 until production hardware is available. I actually did try it as a C43 first (because I much prefer the C43's right side operators and was not wild about using labels on the keys themselves), but the many differences of C43 from Walter's stellar WP43 manuals were too daunting for a new user, even with the "C43 differences" document also "in hand" (well, lotsa PDF alt-tabbing...). So, yeah, as with the WP34S, his manuals proved essential to unravel the intricacies of such a powerful machine and make it second nature. Definitely don't underestimate the value of good documentation—Walter has set the bar very high for those and it would be sad not to see him involved.

The one thing I really didn't like about the C43 layout was being tied to the 42’s single shift key. There's just too much going on for one key and it gets pretty clumsy fast. The double-pressing to access "g" is a good approach if truly forced to 100% reuse the DM42 keymap, but I would hope a production version just provides a true molded-color second function key.

Regardless of any drama... I'm in awe of all the work that has been done and whatever version SwissMicros produces, I am eager to buy!
Last edited by burkhard on Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Walter
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by Walter »

ben.titmus wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:15 pm
The WP43 developers must unfortunately announce that SwissMicros no longer intend to produce a WP43 calculator. The decision has been made by SwissMicros to end the collaboration due to past and recent behaviour of Walter causing the concern that the WP43 project could negatively impact the reputation of SwissMicros.
Interesting but not quite true. Or: Audiatur et altera pars.

Or: Yes in principle but I got a message from Ben on 11.11. (!) reading:
Yesterday Michael contacted me to say he has concerns about manufacturing the WP43 and is inclined to not proceed with the project. His concern is that the reputation of SwissMicros might be affected by the way you interact with the community.
Note that Michael didn't contact me to tell me anything about his concerns nor did the messenger transmit anything specific. The message continued:
There are two main requests that Michael has if we are to proceed. These are:
  • You would need to stop using the SwissMicros forums and communication with the community should be done by other WP43 team
    members
  • SwissMicros would need some editorial control of the manuals[.] The reason for both of these is that Michael thinks there is risk that
    you would be rude to people either in the forums or in the manuals, and this could negatively impact SwissMicros by association.
Note again no specific reasons are given.

As you all know, noone took care of promoting the WP43 for many years, so I felt the duty to do it myself. Nobody else bothered. As a regular contributor to the SwissMicros forums since their origin who posted over 2400 times so far I got a total of one (1) PM from grsbanks in July 2020 telling me I shouldn't tell people about the true "statistics on gun-related casualties" in the USA for diplomatic reasons. Ok, accepted, I obeyed. Never again I received any PM alike anymore. All my posts can be read on the forum, so you can judge yourself.

Due to unspecific accusation I can, alas, only guess that M.S. is simply not amused since I won't hand him some 650 pages of manuals on a silver platter for free and unsolicited modifications but he shall observe my copyright. And I was the only one objecting to some IMO plain unfair, unbalanced conditions he set up for our collaboration with SM - and I see strong evidence that such team internals were told to him personally. It goes without saying that I don't want changing his hardware, so he should keep off my manuals, just for symmetry reasons if for nothing else.

Now when the WP43 is ready, pilot units are shipped, suddenly some guys pop up out of their holes ... And a couple of younger WP43 team members ("the WP43 developers" - don't make me laugh!) decided they don't want to continue pursuing our project since they fear SM will drop the WP43. That's their right to do. I think that decision, however, is lacking in solidarity and is simply disappointing after carrying a project to success for 10 years. That's my right to do. Just my personal opinion, of course.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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RJvM
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by RJvM »

burkhard wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:09 pm
... the many differences of C43 from Walter's stellar WP43 manuals were too daunting for a new user, even with the "C43 differences" also document in hand (well, lotsa PDF alt-tabbing...). So, yeah, as with the WP34S, his manuals proved essential to unravel the intricacies of such a powerful machine and make it second nature. Definitely don't underestimate the value of good documentation—Walter has set the bar very high for those and it would be sad not to see him involved.
The C43 team has been working on documentation that could be used as an addendum to Walter's masterpieces (the OM and RM manuals). We now intend to develop an online and perhaps an on board help system as well as a basic user manual. The new manual will be fully open source and anyone from the community wanting to help with documentation is welcome to contribute.
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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pauli
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by pauli »

It isn't just the newer developers who are onboard with the change. All of the core developers are. In particular both Martin and myself, who've been part of the project from the beginning, are onboard.

It became apparent that WP 43S will not be produced by Swiss Micro. There are irreconcilable differences which simply could not be resolved. The choice came down to continue working on the WP 43S with no expectation of ever holding a device or switching to the C43 where production hardware remained a possibility.


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Walter
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by Walter »

Didn't talk about newer but younger team members. Pauli attended the project from the beginning (2012) but is younger than me as well as Martin who joined in 2017.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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Jaymos
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by Jaymos »

akaTB wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:47 pm
And when my pilot unit will be finally delivered, it will have no update path.
Thanks. :x
If and when, should you be willing to install C43 on your pilot unit, you can use the C43's KEYS menu to select a compatible layout to use the pilot as it is, including the f & g shifts and the operators on the other side. We have a number of experimental keyboard layouts we are toying with in this KEYS menu on the simulator, shown below:
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KEYS menu showing various keyboards: Two C43Alt versions (paper templates made), two V43 versions (imaginary), a DM42 version (hardware), a C43 version (primary DM42 hw) and a WP43 version (actual pilot hw)

The pilot layout is already on the C43 simulator, however up to now it is not enabled on the current C43 firmware (since only the DM42 existed). I will add the WP43 option to the firmware and I will test it on my pilot unit before I release the next C43 update. Note that compatibility does not mean WP43 software is running - it remains C43 software with a two shift keyboard to operate it on the pilot hardware.
Jaco Mostert
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https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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akaTB
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by akaTB »

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:44 pm

The pilot layout is already on the C43 simulator, however up to now it is not enabled on the current C43 firmware (since only the DM42 existed). I will add the WP43 option to the firmware and I will test it on my pilot unit before I release the next C43 update. Note that compatibility does not mean WP43 software is running - it remains C43 software with a two shift keyboard to operate it on the pilot hardware.
As already stated elsewhere, I suppose I'll have to follow this way, one day.
And find all the differences between the two firmwares.

Thank you.
Greetings,
    Massimo
ajcaton
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