Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
Boub65
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by Boub65 »

Hahaha... (although it is really not funny)
I think that...

There is no place TODAY in SM product line for an efficient RPN modern calculator with "unlimited possibilities"... it would instantaneously kill sales of all other models with very limited capabilities (and especially a "crippled" DM32)...

Honestly... who would buy a DM32 (or even a DM42) with a beautiful WP43 around (for nearly the same price) ?
Only either a collector or an HP nostalgic (both already SM customers), not a new customer. A new customer will go to WP43 (for a small extra CHF).

So my guess is that SM will market their own "unlimited" "modern" RPN calculator (under SM name) but after having sold some more DM32/DM42.

Just my 0.02c 😜

PS: the C43 is the only fast track, thanks to GPL, to a modern "un-cripelled" RPN calculator, and every body in the "WP43 team" is understanding that.

Edited : to justify a bit more my thoughts
Last edited by Boub65 on Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:40 am, edited 6 times in total.
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
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pm42
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by pm42 »

Boub65 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:55 am
There is no place TODAY in SM product line for an efficient RPN modern calculator with "unlimited possibilities"... it would instantaneously kill sales of all other models
I wonder why. For instance, I have many classic HP calculators as well as several WP34s (I wrote the timer and several emulators), a DM42 but what I use most at the time are a DM41x and DM15 although they have less possibilities.
I'm not sure I would prefer a WP43 over them.
redglyph
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by redglyph »

Boub65 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:55 am
Honestly... who would buy a DM32 (or even a DM42) with a beautiful WP43 around (for nearly the same price) ?
Only either a collector or an HP nostalgic (both already SM customers), not a new customer. A new customer will go to WP43 (for a small extra CHF).

So my guess is that SM will market their own "unlimited" "modern" RPN calculator (under SM name) but after having sold some more DM32/DM42.
I don't think the WP43 would impact the other products, people are buying the SM products out of nostalgia for the old HP calculators or because they are used to them and want the same experience. The WP projects are quite different and more modern. If people just wanted a more powerful calculator, there are already other alternatives out there (though not RPN except if you count the Prime and the financial HPs).

Then the C43 hasn't been impacted by the decision.

Anyway, we probably don't know everything. It's just sad they couldn't solve the issues quoted above.

PS: IMO "crippled" is a very narrow-minded way of seeing it and I don't think the typical SM customers see it that way, but I may be wrong. When people see an ancestor car, do they consider it being crippled because it still has a carburetor and no navigation system? Do they hesitate between an ancestor car and a modern GT car? I really believe it's two different parts of this niche market.
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Over_score
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by Over_score »

I joined the project in late 2017 to start programming because I saw WP43S as THE CALCULATOR I WANTED to see on my desk at home and at work.
Without Walter's impressive documentation, this would not have been possible, and I thank him for that.
I put the outcome of my voluntary work under GPL 3.0 to be sure that everyone can benefit from it (commercially or not).
Over the months and years, there were a few times I came very close to leaving the project because of Walter's abrasive behavior. I have shared this with at least 3 people who are members or not of the project, by mail or live, and who can testify about it here, as users of the SM and/or HPMuseum forum.

So what happened in the last 3 weeks that led to the abandonment of the WP43 project does not surprise me.

We are now starting again with C43 on a basis of mutual respect in order, I hope, to succeed in producing a calculator as I have wanted for over 5 years.

Martin
DM42 SN00284 & SN03835 running C47, HP34C, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime
pm42
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by pm42 »

Over_score wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:28 am
Over the months and years, there were a few times I came very close to leaving the project because of Walter's abrasive behavior.
I contributed to the previous project, WP34s: timer function, multi-platform emulator and iOS App. Because the last one is free, I have to pay around 80$ a year to register it to the App Store.
That's ok, I can afford it and I wanted the program to be free because this is the open-source spirit.

But I remember some people were shocked when Walter started to sell the documentation and I was one of them. His behavior on HPMuseum's forum was also an issue.
Before that, it was not easy to work with him to say the least even if he was never offensive with me and this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Someone else will write the next iOS emulators.
Boub65
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by Boub65 »

redglyph wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:03 am
PS: IMO "crippled" is a very narrow-minded way of seeing it and I don't think the typical SM customers see it that way, but I may be wrong. When people see an ancestor car, do they consider it being crippled because it still has a carburetor and no navigation system? Do they hesitate between an ancestor car and a modern GT car? I really believe it's two different parts of this niche market.
Hi, sorry, but your analogy is not good and I stand on the "crippled" term (although english is my 3rd langage and I may have missed something 🤔).

A good analogy would have been : Audi taking a Q7 chassis (DM hardware with U5 chip) and building a Ford T (aka very limited HP32SII) on top for nostalgic car collectors. 😜
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
TI-89 titanium, CASIO fx-cg50 and Numworks (to play with micropython)
redglyph
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by redglyph »

Boub65 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:50 am
Hi, sorry, but your analogy is not good and I stand on the "crippled" term (although english is my 3rd langage and I may have missed something 🤔).

A good analogy would have been : Audi taking a Q7 chassis (DM hardware with U5 chip) and building a Ford T (aka very limited HP32SII) on top for nostalgic car collectors. 😜
If you prefer but that's beside the point, which is the experience given by the product. The DM calculators give the same experience, the same functionality but adds modern quality-of-life features like a large display, performances, saving state, improved alpha handling, USB connection.

So someone who is used to an HP-41 feels at home with a DM41, and someone who is looking for something as close as possible to an HP-41 for nostalgia reason gets exactly that. The WP43, WP34S, C43, commercial graphic calculators like the HP Prime or maybe even the earlier HP-48/50 are entirely different animals.

The DM32, by the way, is simpler on purpose. You asked "who would buy a DM32 (or even a DM42) with a beautiful WP43 around", the answer is in the HPCC 2022 talk: users who want a simple scientific calculator, that is not overloaded of functionalities like most modern calculators are. You can do simple calculations and conversions without having to read thick manuals and go through several menus.
redglyph
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by redglyph »

I wasn't going to comment on that part, but since I saw several posts about it:
Over_score wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:28 am
[...]Over the months and years, there were a few times I came very close to leaving the project because of Walter's abrasive behavior. I have shared this with at least 3 people who are members or not of the project, by mail or live, and who can testify about it here, as users of the SM and/or HPMuseum forum.[...]
That's the first impression I had too when trying to communicate with him, and quite frankly one reason why I wouldn't have bought the WP43S.

But with some hindsight I finally believe that a big part of that impression may simply be due to communication problems - poor command of the English language, and humour that doesn't always translate well (feeling very condescending but perhaps without being intended).

I'm not saying this is the same for you, but a point definitely worth considering in general - and it's more a "benefit of the doubt" than a certainty for me. Cultural differences don't help, I know that German and Dutch people are more direct than British and French people, for instance.
pm42
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by pm42 »

redglyph wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:32 pm
Cultural differences don't help, I know that German and Dutch people are more direct than British and French people, for instance.
I've worked in many countries in Europe, in the US and with people from all over the world: Japan, China, many African countries, Australia, etc.
I also used to speak german (kind of forgot), my godson is dutch so I go there often...
I can tell you for sure the problems with Walter had nothing to do with cultural differences nor communication problems.
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anetzer
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Re: Joint statement from the WP43 developers and the C43 team

Post by anetzer »

pm42 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:41 am
Boub65 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:55 am
There is no place TODAY in SM product line for an efficient RPN modern calculator with "unlimited possibilities"... it would instantaneously kill sales of all other models
I wonder why. For instance, I have many classic HP calculators as well as several WP34s (I wrote the timer and several emulators), a DM42 but what I use most at the time are a DM41x and DM15 although they have less possibilities.
I'm not sure I would prefer a WP43 over them.
If you want a simple, uncluttered device, the DM32 makes lots of sense. I don't think it would hurt the DM43 or vice versa. People bought 11C''s when the HP-41 was around and the other way round .. or they bought both.
Last edited by anetzer on Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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