C43/C47 bezel expected when?

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Jaymos
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Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by Jaymos »

avosough wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:01 am
Jaymos wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 5:10 pm
Just an update - I received the long awaited Chinese C47 bezel samples in the post and re-posted it to the other contributors on the project, so we can consolidate all comments back to China.

I can already say that it needs another round of samples (as opposed to an instruction to manufacture), as the samples are not suitable for production as yet. But it is not far off and as far as I can see (pending comments from the others), the actual design probably needs no change - it is production issues to be sorted out.

To confirm, the design is still the same as rev ii, as per the last circulated DIY card (March 12, 2023), i.e. https://47calc.com/downloads/2023-03-12 ... e-card.pdf.
Hi Jaymos,
Could you share a photo of the fit and finish of the sample bezel? I believe this a plastic part and no longer metal?
What are the plans for eventual distribution? Do you anticipate a pre-order period?

Thanks
The result is not what we want and would prefer not to share. We are waiting for the sample to arrive at the last destination (AU, on the other side of the globe to most other places ;-) ) for comment before we address the Chinese company with the needed corrections.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by Jaymos »

avosough wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:01 am
What are the plans for eventual distribution? Do you anticipate a pre-order period?

The plans are to have portions of the order shipped to volunteers in our group for further distribution. We are located on various continents and we have not discussed who will volunteer to distribute. Either way we have no developers in North America.

We did not plan to do pre-orders but we could talk about a tally to get to know who wants. That hasn't been set up. Either way I don't like the idea of collecting money before its ready - especially because it took so long already. I'm glad we never did and we have not plans to increase our stress levels that way!
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
ctrclckws
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Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by ctrclckws »

Following the discussion, but have enough variations of HP calculators to learn, so not running a C47 in any way.

Be glad you are not collecting money for overlays, I've been a participant in a couple of Kickstarter.com campaigns that went way over the original timeline, and many people were commenting "Where's my product?, can I cancel?, can I get my money back?"

Those are not questions you want to deal with, with all of the supply chain issues recently.

Best wishes with the C47. Perhaps, in the future, I'll work with it.
DM10, DM10L: 00031 / DM11, DM11L: 00112 / DM12, DM12L: 02074
DM15, DM15L: 11069 / DM16. DM16L: 02001 / DM41, DM41L: 00859
DM41X: 00036ß / 00181 DM42: 3108 / 6084 WP43: 0032
avosough
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Location: USA

Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by avosough »

Jaymos wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:27 pm
avosough wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:01 am
Hi Jaymos,
Could you share a photo of the fit and finish of the sample bezel? I believe this a plastic part and no longer metal?
What are the plans for eventual distribution? Do you anticipate a pre-order period?

Thanks
The result is not what we want and would prefer not to share. We are waiting for the sample to arrive at the last destination (AU, on the other side of the globe to most other places ;-) ) for comment before we address the Chinese company with the needed corrections.
That's understandable. I hope the quality issues are resolvable for the manufacturer.
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:39 pm
avosough wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:01 am
What are the plans for eventual distribution? Do you anticipate a pre-order period?
The plans are to have portions of the order shipped to volunteers in our group for further distribution. We are located on various continents and we have not discussed who will volunteer to distribute. Either way we have no developers in North America.

We did not plan to do pre-orders but we could talk about a tally to get to know who wants. That hasn't been set up. Either way I don't like the idea of collecting money before its ready - especially because it took so long already. I'm glad we never did and we have not plans to increase our stress levels that way!
Pre-order was a poor choice of words. I meant more of a waitlist to gauge the order quantity for the initial batch (assuming it happens!). I assume there are other lurkers like me who would be interested but not participating in the discussion.


I have been trying to print my own faceplate, and the chain photo printers that can do 4"x6" are all applying some overscan/bleed to the image such that it doesn't print to scale. Anyone else have this problem and a workaround (specifically in the USA)? I got it printed on water resistant 8.5x11 at FedEx, but the image quality is color laser and inferior to matte 4"x6" photo paper.
avosough
Posts: 90
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Location: USA

Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by avosough »

avosough wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:33 am
I have been trying to print my own faceplate, and the chain photo printers that can do 4"x6" are all applying some overscan/bleed to the image such that it doesn't print to scale. Anyone else have this problem and a workaround (specifically in the USA)? I got it printed on water resistant 8.5x11 at FedEx, but the image quality is color laser and inferior to matte 4"x6" photo paper.
In case it's helpful to anyone else, I took a brute force approach to measure the enlargement that the printer was applying (about 102.2%) and adjusted the image down accordingly without changing the canvas size. The prints came back the right size, and the quality from Amazon Photos by mail was really good.

However, I found that cutting the matte photo paper left a lot of white edges around the keys when compared to the plasticky water resistant paper such that the water resistant paper was an overall cleaner looking result.
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Jaymos
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Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by Jaymos »

avosough wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:33 am
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:27 pm
avosough wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 4:01 am
Hi Jaymos,
Could you share a photo of the fit and finish of the sample bezel? I believe this a plastic part and no longer metal?
What are the plans for eventual distribution? Do you anticipate a pre-order period?

Thanks
The result is not what we want and would prefer not to share. We are waiting for the sample to arrive at the last destination (AU, on the other side of the globe to most other places ;-) ) for comment before we address the Chinese company with the needed corrections.
That's understandable. I hope the quality issues are resolvable for the manufacturer.
I thought it interesting to show the C47 sample received. We have not had our final discussions as yet, as the last internal delivery is still pending. The thinking already is that the background colour is too light and the other quality issues are not for discussion here:

.
IMG_2566.jpg
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For comparison, I photographed some units for reference, on the left is my newer DM42 body with the clearer white key labels, bearing my last old paper photo template. Quite visible is the paper's tendency to bend. 2nd from left is my first DM42 with its previous generation white texts with the latest C47 sample template. I by far prefer the later DM42 model's keys. The C47 sample template appears flat, with small curves designed in the corners, so that one can pry off the template using a toothpick to remove it (for whichever reason). The background seems too light in colour.

3rd and 4th from left, for reference the HP35s and WP43 respectively.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by Jaymos »

rudi wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:53 am
Hi,

I am realy looking forward to the high quality C43 bezel described in several of the long sagas/threads here and off course on the official C43 website.
...
Rudi, could you perhaps edit your original post on p1 of this thread to read C43/C47 ?
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Bill K. - USA
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Re: C43 bezel expected when?

Post by Bill K. - USA »

Thank you for the pictures!
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Jaymos
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Re: C43/C47 bezel expected when?

Post by Jaymos »

The long and the short of the sample in the photograph in the post above, are that the product quality falls short of our expectations; and yes maybe we are used to HP legacy quality which is hard to beat. But whatever the details, the overall feeling from ZA, AU, CH, NL, NO & FR was that the sample we had in hand could work, but every aspect except the fitting onto the keyboard was a compromise. It does fit well. The deficiencies are hard to spot once it is mounted, and the colours are a bit dim in the dark. While it is quite visible outside, engineers and scientists mostly labour in the semi-dark of office space, so, not good enough. Although real life is full of compromises and some of us were saying it could work, in the end we all knew it was too much of a compromise.

Good thing we shortlisted 5 suppliers in the beginning of the year, so it was a matter of contacting the second company on the shortlist, and that went pretty smooth. So we placed the order and paid for another set of sample templates from China today.

Now we just wait again, we should receive something in 3-4 weeks to approve for production.
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Clipboard02.png
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Here the deficiencies referred to above.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: C43/C47 bezel expected when?

Post by Jaymos »

Jaymos wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:48 pm
... we should receive something in 3-4 weeks to approve for production.
We just received some photos of the new Chinese samples that are being sent today. Although the grainy cell photo seems a bit bad, the template does not seem bad at all.
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Of course we need to receive the sample first to make sure all is ok, the template fits, the double sided tape sticks down properly and of course the graphics are correctly done. I can already see some issue(s) on the photo which will need discussion, but nothing insurmountable it seems.

It has been a VERY long journey to get to this point where there is a solution on the table. The journey started 4 years ago with us creating a design through the usual iterative approach, editing and re-editing every character on the layout, again and again. The design remains true to the intent, which is calm, well thought out, historically relevant, modern and with font references back to the HP masterpieces while specifically not repeating some less popular font choices of some HP machines. Do have a look at my Allschwil talk at around 11:23 for some of our font and layout inspirations.

The end result is a perfect compromise of showing only the necessary; perhaps it could be considered minimalist subtlety. Admittingly that is probably in the eye of the beholder and before getting too deep into the thinking behind it, lets move on:

The actual manufacture also was a journey. This is our third set of samples. The first metal bezel costed so much in raw cost prior to engineering and transport and it simply would have been impossible to recover the costs and the Canadian job was cancelled. This metal plate, prior to printing, is still shown on the old 43 web site). The second supplier did not succeed in quality and it suffices to say that the errors in manufacturing were pronounced. This template was shown in a previous post (with the 4 units for comparison: 4 messages prior to this one). The Chinese job was cancelled. Now, the third set is on its way to me and it seems very positive.

Lets wait to get the samples in hand. I should have it mid next week.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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