What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
Boub65
Posts: 231
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Location: Rabat, Morocco

What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by Boub65 »

I know that it's a bit early for this question not knowing exactly what will be in the final DM32...
But after the presentation of @Bob at HHC 2022... why not give it a try ?

I would like some of us would like :
- "infinite" registers, it can just be like HP15c acces through indirection using i and (i) (with mapping of the first 33 registers to A-Z, i, 6 statistics registers)
- more labels, local labels (à la HP15C using 0-9 and .0-.9 ???)
- more flags (direct 0-9 and .0-.9) and indirect using i and (i) (with mapping of the first 20 flags to 0-9 and .0-.9)
- line display in program not using the "." and "," not A.01 but A101 and not A,01 but A201
- have alphanumerical displayed leaving stack visible when SF .0 (SF 10) is set to display a "message" (like alpha display on DM41X and DM42 provided by DMCP)
- two complex modes (choice in DMCP settings) 1) standard HP32SII complex mode (using X+iY Z+iT) registers for backward compatibility and 2) much better HP15C true complex mode for each register (may be we are missing some keys on the keyborad to implement the second mode?)
- MATRIX à la HP15C... but here also we are missing keys on the keyboard I think
- possibility to key/display "a b/c" fraction in equations (not limited to it's decimal conversion)
- possibility to key/display "a b/c" fractions in programs (not limited to it's decimal conversion)
- all the STO/RCL, ISG/DSE, STO/RCL +,-,×,÷, VIEW, X<>, etc. applied on the Stack registers X,Y,Z,T,L (for example STO . X would give STO ST X)
- load/save state files
- load/save programs (be aware that there cannot be any duplicate LBL A-Z in HP32SII)

and you? what are the improvements of HP32SII you'de like to see one day in DM32 ?
Last edited by Boub65 on Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:43 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
TI-89 titanium, CASIO fx-cg50 and Numworks (to play with micropython)
gorang
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:12 pm

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by gorang »

Better support for matrices and complex numbers, sure.
But also...unlimited stack, if possible?
HP 48GX, HP Prime
redglyph
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:45 am

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by redglyph »

I don't know the HP32Sii very well, don't hesitate to tell me if I'm wrong or to ignore any nonsense. ;)
Boub65 wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:53 pm
- more labels, local labels (à la HP15C using 0-9 and .0-.9 ???)
Yes, it seems to me that with so much memory, separate programs and local labels are a must, A-Z only will not work. But it must remain back-compatible with original programs. I don't know how far they're going to modify the system; if I understood correctly what was said at HHC 2022, SM was looking into a way of doubling the number of labels.

I'm wondering if labels of any size wouldn't be more appropriate, and it seems to be back-compatible. If the presentation of the program listing is clear enough with the LBL, for ex. indented, there is no need to use the A01 notation at all, the steps can simply start at 000 after each LBL, which defines a program/subroutine.

Local numerical labels, maybe 2 digits, seems enough. Local being between an alpha program LBL and its RTN (I think the HP32Sii only allowed one RTN per program, but I'm not sure).

Perhaps XEQ can benefit from the menu or even the whole screen with shortcuts to quickly select the program.

Code: Select all

001 LBL QUADROOT
002   ...
012   LBL 01
013   ...
028 RTN
001 LBL AREA
      ...
012 RTN
Boub65 wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:53 pm
- line display in program not using the "." and "," not A.01 but A101 and not A,01 but A201
Definitely! HP must have been quite desperate to use that notation. Unless the alternative system above is used.
dlachieze
Posts: 613
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Location: France

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by dlachieze »

The possibility to use the stack registers (X,Y,Z,T,L) the same way as the variables (as with the 42S):
  • Decrement and increment :
    • DSE variable or stack register
    • ISG variable or stack register
  • Storage and recall :
    • STO variable or stack register
    • RCL variable or stack register
  • Storage and recall arithmetic :
    • STO +,—,x,÷ variable or stack register
    • RCL +,—,x,÷ variable or stack register
  • View:
    • VIEW variable or stack register
  • Exchange with X:
    • x<> variable or stack register
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066 - WP43: 00042
Boub65
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Rabat, Morocco

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by Boub65 »

dlachieze wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:52 pm
The possibility to use the stack registers (X,Y,Z,T,L) the same way as the variables (as with the 42S):
We already have X Y Z T and L as normal registers (A-Z)
So we would need to add a "." as STO . X like in HP41CX/HP42S and have a different display STO ST X
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
TI-89 titanium, CASIO fx-cg50 and Numworks (to play with micropython)
dlachieze
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm
Location: France

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by dlachieze »

Boub65 wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 pm
We already have X Y Z T and L as normal registers (A-Z)
So we would need to add a "." as STO . X like in HP41CX/HP42S and have a different display STO ST X
Exactly.
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066 - WP43: 00042
rprosperi
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Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:48 pm
Location: New York

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by rprosperi »

I don't understand the nature of some of these comments....

"Please add this feature, as seen on the 42S/DM42..."

"How about that feature as used on the 41C/DM41X..."

It seems to me that if one wants these extra 'power features' (e.g. Matrices, Complex, etc.) one is probably better off simply using a DM42 or DM41X which have more thorough support for such features, rather than trying to bolt-on some simplified version into the DM32, which is inherently simpler to use. The key design objective is to retain that simplicity of use and product feel. Also, another implied (though perhaps not stated) goal is in fact to be different from prior models, both to address different users' needs and appeal to a wider, less demanding audience.

Other suggestions such as more flags, and extra stack juggling commands (e.g. X<>__) do make sense and will be considered for this or future releases.

And no, there will never be an unlimited stack in DM32. Not ever. :o See RPN/RPL war history for why... :lol:

So, please don't take this feedback as squelching ideas, but rather as trying to steer them to align with the current vision.

Keep your ideas coming please.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
Boub65
Posts: 231
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Location: Rabat, Morocco

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by Boub65 »

@Bob...
First... my COMPLEX and MATRIX suggestions say somehow they are flagged as certainly difficult to do "due to missing keys (labels?) on the keyboard"... re-read please.

What does that mean... that means that I am well aware that DM32 should be a "simple" calculator of course and not implement any instructions that cannot use the current keyboard.

BUT (there is always a but)...

If SM can implement a good complex handling à la very simple to use HP15C calculator (I will no longer mention HP42s/DM42) in the DM32, instead of the poor HP32SII and with the same keyboard... then by all means DO IT!

Same with MATRIX @Bob... HP15C with fewer keys on the keyboard, numerical display and NO menus handles matrices quite well!

So... we can have in DM32 : EQN/EVAL, solve, integrate, a lousy complex handling... but are forbidden to hope for good complex handling and matrix????

I don't understand where the "simple" calculator frontier stands... my references for simple is HP15C and not HP41C/HP42s... Sorry.

Edit : I will remove any reference to any thing else than the very "simple" HP15C 😜
Last edited by Boub65 on Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:59 am, edited 5 times in total.
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
TI-89 titanium, CASIO fx-cg50 and Numworks (to play with micropython)
Linus_Sch
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2021 9:33 am

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by Linus_Sch »

The one big advanced feature that does make sense (to me) is to simply go for arbitrary length alpha labels as a solution to the label problem. Keep single letter labels working as-is, enabling quick and unaltered access to those. When entering a label, in addition to the A-Z annunciator put one that says LONG next to one of the top row keys. After pressing that the user can enter any number of letters, ending it by pressing the same key again. If in a situation where choosing from existing labels then a pop-up box showing the available matches with the letters so far entered and being able to choose between them without entering all the letters would be neat.

Then again, I'm not sure that would be the best solution. It may make more sense to keep labels working as-is, no extension whatsoever, and just make sure that it is really convenient to load and store program state separately from other state in the setup menu - with arbitrary file names and easy transfer and sharing and such. Let that be "one program", thus the global labels as-is are used as local labels for each program. Cache a few of the most recently and a few of the most frequently used programs in RAM.

Replacing . and , with simply going to three digit line numbering when needed seems like a no-brainer to me, just do it.
Boub65
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Location: Rabat, Morocco

Re: What HP32SII improvements (in DM32) would you like ?

Post by Boub65 »

dlachieze wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:52 pm
[*]Exchange with X:
  • x<> variable or stack register
This one is difficult, because there is no corresponding "X<>" key on the keyboard...

:oops: X<> is available on the keyboard :oops: (as g X<>Y)
Last edited by Boub65 on Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:07 am, edited 4 times in total.
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
TI-89 titanium, CASIO fx-cg50 and Numworks (to play with micropython)
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