DM48 Still Wanted

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
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TomC
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DM48 Still Wanted

Post by TomC »

Yes, I know this issue has been talked about a lot in the past, but I just wanted to remind all that there is a demand for the 'DM48'.

[I own more SwissMicro products than perhaps one should - so I'm a big fan!]

The HP48 ROMs have been released - there is no longer a copyright issue.

I understand that the 'RPL' seems to be an issue to some (I have not had this issue), but the versatility of objects and list processing really make this architecture most interesting.

True Hardware Serial I/O could be a difficulty (IR is already proven in SwissMicro products).

I realize that it will require new hardware as another row of keys above ENTER is required.

A backlit display is highly desirable (the PX15 is very nice as it has a backlit display). (and if you've checked out others - be it modern TI/Casio, the backlight is a nice facility)

Regards,
TomC
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redglyph
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by redglyph »

That's what I was wondering about the copyright. Reformulating a question I asked in another thread:

What's the exact legal status of the HP-48 series' ROMs? What I read was HP unofficially announced that people were allowed to download it, but there is no trace of this and that division of HP has closed since then (circa 2001 I think).

The ROMs still have the original copyright so unless this had been clarified at some point, using it is potentially a problem for a professional product because nothing prevents HP from sending a cease & desist letter.
Panchdara
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by Panchdara »

TomC wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:10 pm
...
A backlit display is highly desirable (the PX15 is very nice as it has a backlit display). (and if you've checked out others - be it modern TI/Casio, the backlight is a nice facility)
...
Don't forget to back-lite the keyboard too
rprosperi
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by rprosperi »

TomC wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:10 pm

The HP48 ROMs have been released - there is no longer a copyright issue.
This is not correct. An engineer on the dev-team made a post once, on a dial-up hp48 newsgroup in the early 2000's, that "it's OK for people to use the ROM in emulators" or words to that effect, in the context of a discussion about if it was OK for a 48 owner to use a copy of the ROM file in a desktop emulator. This is not "released" as you're implying, in fact legally it's nothing at all.

OTOH, if someone knows of, and can provide links (or copies) of something more official than that, then for the love of God, please provide it here!
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
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akaTB
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by akaTB »

rprosperi wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:46 pm
TomC wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:10 pm

The HP48 ROMs have been released - there is no longer a copyright issue.
This is not correct. An engineer on the dev-team made a post once, on a dial-up hp48 newsgroup in the early 2000's, that "it's OK for people to use the ROM in emulators" or words to that effect, in the context of a discussion about if it was OK for a 48 owner to use a copy of the ROM file in a desktop emulator. This is not "released" as you're implying, in fact legally it's nothing at all.

OTOH, if someone knows of, and can provide links (or copies) of something more official than that, then for the love of God, please provide it here!
... and what was actually passed into the hands of Moravia & Co.
Greetings,
    Massimo
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dlachieze
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by dlachieze »

rprosperi wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:46 pm
TomC wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:10 pm

The HP48 ROMs have been released - there is no longer a copyright issue.
This is not correct. An engineer on the dev-team made a post once, on a dial-up hp48 newsgroup in the early 2000's, that "it's OK for people to use the ROM in emulators" or words to that effect, in the context of a discussion about if it was OK for a 48 owner to use a copy of the ROM file in a desktop emulator. This is not "released" as you're implying, in fact legally it's nothing at all.
I think you’re referring to this ROM of HP48 discussion where Jean-Yves Avenard from ACO said that:

"A marketing decision has been made a few months ago (when the HP39/40G ROM has been released) that it was now okay to distribute the ROM"

and:

"Let say that they probably took this decision because you had engineer
pushing really hard to have these ROMs released.
I'm very happy about this decision as I strongly believe that trying an HP4x
before you effectively buy it, is the best way to know that HP calculators
are the best in the world.
Not everybody can afford to loose $180 on a bet.
"
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066 - WP43: 00042
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TomC
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by TomC »

rprosperi:

Thank you for the clarification - perhaps I'd 'overspoke'.

Given that it's 2022, HP is no longer in the calculator business, and have turned over IP to another supplier, HOW can we/SwissMicros get around this? The HP legal staff? This new supplier legal staff?

A sad/frustrating state of affairs.

TomC
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by redglyph »

Back in 2002 Jean-Yves Avenard, the same person mentioned earlier who worked for HP, said(*) that the HP-49g source should become GPL in 2003, though I haven't seen any confirmation of that. I didn't own this calculator (I own an HP-50g though) but I've read that it had one of the best software. Unfortunately the case and keyboard were terrible.

As far as I know, the CAS code was released under LGPL in 2004 but one could only link it to the original ROM, not distribute the resulting binary. Unless the GPL plan really happened, but it didn't seem to be the case in 2004.

My theory is that he was talking about the CAS software, and that in the mean time they had to change to LGPL to keep the HP code out of it. Maybe someone here knows more about it and confirm it's not released?

(*) reference

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.hp ... V2L0dAxgYJ
In 2003 the HP49 source will go into GPL as Erable and the MK will go into GPL.
So nothing will prevent the release of a new ROM from then

[...]

The HP49 is linked to the MK. In our contract the MK is going GPL by 2003
(if MDG wants to), so everything linked to it will go into GPL too..
It's like a virus you know..
rprosperi
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by rprosperi »

dlachieze wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:36 pm

I think you’re referring to this ROM of HP48 discussion where Jean-Yves Avenard from ACO said that:

"A marketing decision has been made a few months ago (when the HP39/40G ROM has been released) that it was now okay to distribute the ROM"

and:

"Let say that they probably took this decision because you had engineer
pushing really hard to have these ROMs released.
I'm very happy about this decision as I strongly believe that trying an HP4x
before you effectively buy it, is the best way to know that HP calculators
are the best in the world.
Not everybody can afford to loose $180 on a bet.
"
Exactly. This post is as legally solid as a gentle breeze.

A team member vaguely quoting 'marketing' 22 years ago in a geek newsgroup post is not a basis for investment.

But thanks Didier for providing the infamous quote so folks can see the 'decision' upon which so many plans have been proposed.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
rawi
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Re: DM48 Still Wanted

Post by rawi »

Exactly. This post is as legally solid as a gentle breeze.

A team member vaguely quoting 'marketing' 22 years ago in a geek newsgroup post is not a basis for investment.
Has anybody ever tried to clarify this question by sending a letter to the legal department of HP? If it is ignored, nothing is lost. If there is either a positive or negative answer you know.
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