Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
Thomas Okken
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Thomas Okken »

ijabbott wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
A DM42Plus running Plus42 on the new SOC platform would be nice (if it fits). SM would need to license the Plus42 code from Thomas, perhaps on a royalty basis.
I'm releasing the Plus42 source code under GPLv2, just like I do with Free42. All I'm keeping closed source, for now, are the Android and iOS front-ends.

I would want royalties for a closed-source license, which they would need if they wanted to customize the app and keep the modifications to themselves. Again, just like with Free42.
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ijabbott
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by ijabbott »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:07 am
ijabbott wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
A DM42Plus running Plus42 on the new SOC platform would be nice (if it fits). SM would need to license the Plus42 code from Thomas, perhaps on a royalty basis.
I'm releasing the Plus42 source code under GPLv2, just like I do with Free42. All I'm keeping closed source, for now, are the Android and iOS front-ends.

I would want royalties for a closed-source license, which they would need if they wanted to customize the app and keep the modifications to themselves. Again, just like with Free42.
Still, it would be nice if the selling price of a prospective DM42Plus included a mandatory donation. I think that should also be the case for the regular DM42. After all, the DM41X costs CHF30 more than the DM42 and the only real differences are SwissMicros' software development costs and maybe some niche factor.
redglyph
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by redglyph »

Using a mature IP is the way to go for such developments. The time saved on R&D and support usually more than makes up for the royalties, and the time-to-market is dramatically reduced which allows SM to start another project earlier.

It always depends on the negotiation of the royalties of course, but otherwise I don't see any reason to hesitate here.

The problem is the extra row. Maybe it could be moved into a soft menu, with an adaptation like the WP43 that gives 2 rows of soft menu (since no blue key for a 3rd). Or using the arrows.

Otherwise, unless I missed something it could even be an upgrade to existing DM42.

I would be very interested by a DM42Plus too. :) And it's closer to the impossible DM48 dream.
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Walter
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Walter »

redglyph wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:06 pm
Using a mature IP is the way to go for such developments.
IP = ??
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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ijabbott
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by ijabbott »

redglyph wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:06 pm
The problem is the extra row. Maybe it could be moved into a soft menu, with an adaptation like the WP43 that gives 2 rows of soft menu (since no blue key for a 3rd). Or using the arrows.

Otherwise, unless I missed something it could even be an upgrade to existing DM42.
The extra row would be nice, but the functions on the 2nd row of Plus42 can be accessed via the catalog.

However, one problem that springs to mind are the four keys that get relabelled while editing an equation, especially because SwissMicros would want to be able to use those keys in DM42 alpha mode too.
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ijabbott
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by ijabbott »

Walter wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:20 pm
redglyph wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:06 pm
Using a mature IP is the way to go for such developments.
IP = ??
Intellectual Property.
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Walter
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Walter »

ijabbott wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:26 pm
Walter wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:20 pm
redglyph wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:06 pm
Using a mature IP is the way to go for such developments.
IP = ??
Intellectual Property.
Thanks!
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
redglyph
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by redglyph »

Yes, sorry for the jargon. :)
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by redglyph »

ijabbott wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:25 pm
However, one problem that springs to mind are the four keys that get relabelled while editing an equation, especially because SwissMicros would want to be able to use those keys in DM42 alpha mode too.
It would require some adaptation for sure. It would be a tremendous advantage to use the existing layout, but perhaps it wouldn't be as convenient as a new one. I don't know the 42Plus well enough to see all the implications.

A model with an extra row would be nice, but wouldn't that make it too tall?
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Thomas Okken »

redglyph wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:15 pm
I don't know the 42Plus well enough to see all the implications.
You can get an idea how it might work, by running Plus42 with the DM42 skin. You'll have to use the CATALOG to access DIRS, DIR.FCN, UNITS, UNIT.FCN, EQN, and EQN.FCN; and for R↑, X<>, VIEW, %CH, you'll have to use XEQ or the FCN CATALOG. SST↑ is in CATALOG→PRGM; for PLOT, and TVM, you currently have to use XEQ "PLOT.M" and XEQ "TVM", respectively, since I haven't decided yet how to deal with them in this scenario.

DIRS and UNITS are moved to the first row of CATALOG when a non-Plus42-aware skin is used, so it won't take too many extra keystrokes to reach them, and EQN can be reached using the white [=] key in the SOLVER and ∫f(x) menus. For me personally, that covers the most common use cases, and I could live with this arrangement, or even with a 37-key keyboard, but personal preferences will vary, of course.

I don't think the keys that are relabeled when the equation editor is active would be an issue. The symbols ( ) [ ] : = could simply be printed next to them. I went with key relabeling in the app because I could, but I don't see that as a very important feature.
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