Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
Linus_Sch
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Linus_Sch »

rudi wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:42 pm
However, the display of my DM42 is very easy to read with my very dim red head lamp (is it e-ink?), but I would really like to have the backlit display and keys still.
It is not e-ink, but IIRC you're not the first one to ask. Good to hear that it is readable in dim light, I have heard many great things about that display but I have not yet seen it myself. I'm looking forward to the DM32, ordering as soon as it launches and then I'll finally get to see it!

I do think it might just be the ultimate calculator display. E-ink is too slow. High pixel density OLED, like on premium phones, is very nice indeed and could nicely emulate the red LED displays of old, but... I don't plot on a calculator. I plot on a computer, or on a phone in a pinch. I have no use for color in my calculator. Maybe as an indicator of what type of thing a soft key refers to?

Backlit keys? Tricky to do, and it is most often the non-primary labels that I would actually need to read, which the backlighting might be more of a problem for than a help for.

And I like coin cells. Size is important to me, but maybe even more so that they appear to never leak. Good quality coin cells may be expensive, but good quality AAA cells appear to me to have gone extinct. And low quality alkaline batteries is a recipe for a bad time.

We all want different things, that much is clear. I wonder if this thread is helpful at all to the SwissMicros team, or if they're just as confused as we are about what few things this crowd might actually agree on :D
whuyse
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by whuyse »

Not mentioned before, but something *I*'d like to see: a DM71
Simulation (Free71, in which case it can be a portrait model ;-) ) or emulation, regardless.

Cheers, Werner
41CV†,42S,48GX,49G,DM42,DM41X,17BII,15CE, DM15L
jyl
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by jyl »

I have not read the entire thread, but I would add better “key feel”.
amafan
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by amafan »

As long as we are chiming in on the Next Best Thing, so will I. If someone has already mentioned anything on my list please consider it an endorsement of your requested feature.

Breaking away from the standard emulation or simulation of an HP calculator of old, go with a new RPN or RPL programmable calculator with the following tools and features.

- A PC-based programming and development environment, including keypad overlays and printing routines for alternative calculation configurations, and a simulator for program test. Additionally, the IDE would be capable of developing calculator configurations for given calculating requirements. (see below)

- User configurability; i.e. When you need a given calculation you have the ability to set the calculator state and functionality of the keys. This would allow the calculator to be configured for say Electrical Engineering, with direct keyboard access to appropriate constants and conversions. Calculated Industries has done this for the contracting and construction industries with a series of calculators that are each configured for a given trade or technician. I'd like to see this type functionality on single hardware platform for programming, scientific, and engineering professionals. (See https://www.calculated.com). Also, a link to constants, conversions, help files, software routines, sub-routines, off images, and other standard functions that can be easy dropped into programs in development or configurations, by the user or loaded directly to the calculator.

- A digital catalog of of constants and functions that can be selected and assigned to keys or Menus. I favor letting the user select the appropriate attributes for their needs in the development environment then DL to the calculator, rather than an extensive and deep menu system. (Could be user supported).

- Blank keypad overlay stock and/or pre-printed overlays for pre-developed configurations.

- Obviously, keep the ability to accept keyboard overlays.

- A USB-C port that allows mass storage access for extended program storage, state configurations, and/or printing via a bluetooth transmission dongle. No, I don't want BT on the calculator as it eats power.

- Stay with the button cells for power, but make them easier to change out without tools. Also, it would be nice if it were possible to store spare cells in the case or cover.

- A flip over cover for the keyboard and display.

- As long as we are asking for the moon, I saw a cheapie calculator that had a clamshell case. On one side was the calculator, on the other side was an e-ink pad with a stylus. You could write on it and erase it with a button. It would be nice for jotting down an intermediate result or a phone number.

OK, I realize that these are my fantasies and desires only. YMMV. I know this represents challenges that go beyond the capabilities and capacity of the engineering team at SM, but I think it represents the direction the SM team should go in next. And I do realize its just my two cents, so I hope you all take that into consideration in any reaction you may have to my input.
DM42 (#6476), DM41X (#458), DM15, 12 - HP 12, 17BII, 35(2), 45, HP 27S, 28S, 30B, 41CV, 41CX, 42S, 48S, 35S, HP10bII+, 12C PLAT
I may have a problem!
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dm319
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by dm319 »

Linus_Sch wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:23 pm
I'd love a Julia calculator, but that sure is a challenge. How much power? How much screen? What to put on the keyboard? Python is available on some, I have not seen R.
In my mind, the purpose of being able to use a modern numerical programming language is to be able to write code that is easy to view, review, share and maintain. I don't envisage attempting to write this code on the device itself - it doesn't have the keyboard or screen for this purpose. Instead it would work much the way the Sin function works on a calculator. The program/function is placed on the device (after being written on a device with a keyboard and screen). The function takes input from the stack, does its thing, and returns a result to the stack.
ben.titmus wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:55 pm
I agree this would be at the other end. Personally I would probably be happy with just RPL. Adding R would be quite difficult I suspect. Python can be embedded relatively easily (though I don't know about how well this works with things like numpy, and an interface would need to be created to interact with the stack etc.). I've no idea about Julia. In any case, this would require a huge development effort.
As in my comment above, the purpose would not be to replace RPN/RPL which is useful for programming the device to hand, but to allow functions to be created in a modern language. This would require python/R/Julia compiled for the architecture and some way in which these languages can be run on the device. The easiest way to do this would be for the calculator to be running an OS that can run python/julia/R, which probably means a paired-down Unix of some sort, maybe linux or qnx, and an API to those programs.

It may not be a good idea, as Julia/R/Python are interpreted/JIT, and this could be very slow on a low-power handheld device. Maybe fortran would be better as you could cross-compile on another machine and it's probably the fastest numerical language out there.
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Linus_Sch
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Linus_Sch »

dm319 wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:29 pm
In my mind, the purpose of being able to use a modern numerical programming language is to be able to write code that is easy to view, review, share and maintain. I don't envisage attempting to write this code on the device itself - it doesn't have the keyboard or screen for this purpose. Instead it would work much the way the Sin function works on a calculator. The program/function is placed on the device (after being written on a device with a keyboard and screen). The function takes input from the stack, does its thing, and returns a result to the stack.
dm319 wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:29 pm
It may not be a good idea, as Julia/R/Python are interpreted/JIT, and this could be very slow on a low-power handheld device. Maybe fortran would be better as you could cross-compile on another machine and it's probably the fastest numerical language out there.
I see. Fortran makes a lot of sense for this, as it is a compiled language from the get-go. And modern Fortran is quite nicely readable, it is far from the horrors of old Fortran code.

I think there are projects that do compile Python, so that could work. No idea about R.

Julia would be tricky. Very tricky if I have understood it correctly: compiling Julia so that the target device does not need the capability to compile-as-needed appears to be something that many have wished for but the core developers do not see any logical solution to. It might be an extensive research project to figure out what to do, what restrictions to put on the code to make it feasible to compile yet not too distant from normal Julia.
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Brianetta
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Brianetta »

Linus_Sch wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:52 pm
I think there are projects that do compile Python, so that could work.
MicroPython was basically created for this role.
🖩 DM16L, DM42
etn
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by etn »

ijabbott wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:02 am
Thomas Okken wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:07 am
ijabbott wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
A DM42Plus running Plus42 on the new SOC platform would be nice (if it fits). SM would need to license the Plus42 code from Thomas, perhaps on a royalty basis.
I'm releasing the Plus42 source code under GPLv2, just like I do with Free42. All I'm keeping closed source, for now, are the Android and iOS front-ends.

I would want royalties for a closed-source license, which they would need if they wanted to customize the app and keep the modifications to themselves. Again, just like with Free42.
Still, it would be nice if the selling price of a prospective DM42Plus included a mandatory donation. I think that should also be the case for the regular DM42. After all, the DM41X costs CHF30 more than the DM42 and the only real differences are SwissMicros' software development costs and maybe some niche factor.
Agree. I, for one, would be happy to donate €30 (or more) to Thomas to install Plus42 on my DM42 hardware :)
redglyph
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by redglyph »

So would I. :)

But I understand that it would be hard to squeeze it into the flash of the current version?

It would already be great if there was a version without the problem with the menus disappearing after one click, like PROB, DISP and so on. I know there's a trick to make them remain longer by selecting the menu twice but that's a lot of keys, and there's just no good reason to make some of the menus disappear. Maybe I can see if a pull request is possible with that fix.
Boub65
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Re: Collection of wishes for future SwissMicros products - discussion following Bob Prosperi's HHC 2022 talk

Post by Boub65 »

@bob
My one and only resquest for the new U5 plateform would be to be able to read/send serial text messages using the USB-C connector.
NMEA messages to be precise.
NMEA allows GPS, HAM APRS and WEATHER collection of data through an ASCII format.
It allows also to vehiculate small text messages (that can be sent/received with a HAM radio using APRS).

With TEXT send/receive we could also build a program to control our HAM rigs using the the calculator implementing TS440 protocol...

Business wise, it would open the HAM market to SM...
Sincèrement, Sincerely, 73,
Boubker

DM15L, DM41L, DM42 #00855 (domes upgraded), DM41X #00707
HP48SX (with dark screen), HP42s, HP32SII (1990 with fraction bug), HP41C/CV
TI-89 titanium, CASIO fx-cg50 and Numworks (to play with micropython)
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