WP43 Bug Reports and Maintenance

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
rprosperi
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Location: New York

Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by rprosperi »

Thomas_ER wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:30 pm

Yes, battery #3 is new, voltage is OK (near 3V).
The behavior is the same with battery and with USB.
Maybe (depending on the decision of SM) I can replace the board myself.
As Walter says, even new batteries may not be good, e.g. reading 2.7/2.8 V can look 'close to 3V' yet sometimes mean it's right on the edge of failure, but I don't want to belabor this any further, you've been patient and tried lots of things; it seems like bad h/w.

So, please email Michael and let him know your WP43 unit seems defective and also let him know the basics we've covered. If you are comfortable changing the board that could make it easier, or at least faster, as parts can sometimes be mailed faster (as they have no commercial value). He will probably want the old board to investigate the source of the problem, hope you don't mind mailing that back to him (but please confirm so directly with him.

Thanks for your patience and good luck.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
Thomas_ER
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by Thomas_ER »

rprosperi wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:54 am
Thomas_ER wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:30 pm

Yes, battery #3 is new, voltage is OK (near 3V).
The behavior is the same with battery and with USB.
Maybe (depending on the decision of SM) I can replace the board myself.
As Walter says, even new batteries may not be good, e.g. reading 2.7/2.8 V can look 'close to 3V' yet sometimes mean it's right on the edge of failure, but I don't want to belabor this any further, you've been patient and tried lots of things; it seems like bad h/w.

So, please email Michael and let him know your WP43 unit seems defective and also let him know the basics we've covered. If you are comfortable changing the board that could make it easier, or at least faster, as parts can sometimes be mailed faster (as they have no commercial value). He will probably want the old board to investigate the source of the problem, hope you don't mind mailing that back to him (but please confirm so directly with him.

Thanks for your patience and good luck.
@Walter, @Bob:
For the records: Just measured extern (meanwhile I'm very fast in opening the WP43 ;-): 3.02 - 3.03V

Thank you for the rcommendations regarding Michael, Mail is sent,
I also asked him for possible replacement of the board
(maybe there is some with the new processor for testing ;-) )'

Thank you both very much for your patience and support!
Thomas
[ HP48/49/50/42S/WP34/HP Prime/ DM42 (#00185+00318) ]
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Walter
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by Walter »

Thomas_ER wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:33 am
For the records: Just measured extern (meanwhile I'm very fast in opening the WP43 ;-): 3.02 - 3.03V
Yes in principle but please look here for more reliable information about battery quality and external/open voltage readings.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
Thomas_ER
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by Thomas_ER »

Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:52 am
Thomas_ER wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:33 am
For the records: Just measured extern (meanwhile I'm very fast in opening the WP43 ;-): 3.02 - 3.03V
Yes in principle but please look here for more reliable information about battery quality and external/open voltage readings.
full agreement! Next time I'll do so! (old part, see photo)

.. but still voltage is much higher than the now 3 batteries consumed by the previous tests since monday.

There could be an small improvement for the next SM hardware release: battery voltage measurement with load included
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[ HP48/49/50/42S/WP34/HP Prime/ DM42 (#00185+00318) ]
redglyph
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by redglyph »

Agreed, such a device without a reliable indicator is cumbersome, the user shouldn't have to buy special test equipment and dismantle a device to check the battery.

But it's strange that the indicator is wrong since the device already has the correct load when it's measuring the voltage, isn't something else wrong? And couldn't it be fixed by software?

The battery indicator is shown all the time, so I assume it regularly reads the ADC. If this is performed by an interrupt, for example when refreshing the clock display, it may read the value when the CPU is idle (so with the wrong load). It could be interesting to read the ADC less frequently and to do it in a dedicated loop that draws enough power to load the battery in a more realistic way.
Thomas_ER
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by Thomas_ER »

found a small mismatch in Users Manual (wp43-owners-manual-0.23.1.pdf) on page 170.
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[ HP48/49/50/42S/WP34/HP Prime/ DM42 (#00185+00318) ]
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Walter
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by Walter »

@Thomas_ER: Thanks for reporting. Corrected.

@redglyph: Yes in principle but batteries are macroscopic objects and thus decay continuously. I'd guess that - while in manual run mode - a measurement after each "greater" processor effort would do even if these events are minutes apart. No extra interrupt for battery reading, please, unless you want to replace your battery earlier.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
redglyph
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by redglyph »

Walter wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:24 pm
@redglyph: Yes in principle but batteries are macroscopic objects and thus decay continuously. I'd guess that - while in manual run mode - a measurement after each "greater" processor effort would do even if these events are minutes apart. No extra interrupt for battery reading, please, unless you want to replace your battery earlier.
Maybe I misunderstand how those batteries work. I thought that in order to have a relevant voltage measure - a good indication of the remaining charge - the battery had to be "loaded", in other words the voltage we measure with the CPU ADC or a voltmeter is only relevant if there is enough current. If that is indeed the case, it could be interesting to know how much current is necessary, by the way. And how long it takes to get the value out of the ADC, those are usually pretty slow, which is a problem.

Instead you are suggesting to measure the voltage before and after some processing, would that give a reliable value if there is not enough current while doing those measurements?

About the interrupt: of course, what I meant was to use an existing one, if there is any. I don't think we need to measure the battery often: when the device is switched on then once every few hours should be more than enough. Chances are it will mostly be sampled once when switching the calculator on.
dlachieze
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by dlachieze »

WP43 KEYG and KEYX issue

I was trying to build some programmable menus when I realized that the issue I reported back in January is still there, which makes building programmable menus quite cumbersome compared to the HP-42S:
dlachieze wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:20 pm
  • KEYG and KEYX expect to have the key label in K so when you want to define a soft key you need to do for example:

    Code: Select all

    'MyKey'
    STO K
    DROP
    KEY 01 GTO 01
    It would be better for KEYG and KEYX to get the key label from X and to do the drop automatically
The issue is that strings on the WP43 are directly entered in the X register as there is no dedicated Alpha register, but KEYG and KEYX doesn’t take the key label from X but from K, which is doubling the number of steps you need to define a programmable menu key, from 2 steps to 4 steps.
I don't understand why according the WP43 OM 0.23.1 (page 57): "K is also the default alpha register for some special operations (see pp. 245f)." Some remnant from a vanished early alpha mode?

Compare this extract from the HP-42S manual page 147 (21 steps, stack content not modified, alpha register content lost):

Code: Select all

01 LBL "YEAR"
02 LBL A
03 "JAN"
04 KEY 1 XEQ 01
05 "FEB"
06 KEY 2 XEQ 02
07 "MAR"
08 KEY 3 XEQ 03
09 "APR"
10 KEY 4 XEQ 04
11 "MAY"
12 KEY 5 XEQ 05
13 "JUN"
14 KEY 6 XEQ 06
15 KEY 7 GTO B
16 KEY 8 GTO B
17 KEY 9 GTO 99
18 MENU
18 LBL 20
20 STOP
21 GTO 20
with the same thing done on the WP43 (33 steps (57% increase) - with top stack level and register K content lost):

Code: Select all

01 LBL "YEAR"
02 LBL A
03 "JAN"
04 STO K
05 DROP
06 KEY 1 XEQ 01
07 "FEB"
08 STO K
09 DROP
10 KEY 2 XEQ 02
11 "MAR"
12 STO K
13 DROP
14 KEY 3 XEQ 03
15 "APR"
16 STO K
17 DROP
18 KEY 4 XEQ 04
19 "MAY"
20 STO K
21 DROP
22 KEY 5 XEQ 05
23 "JUN"
24 STO K
25 DROP
26 KEY 6 XEQ 06
27 KEY 7 GTO B
28 KEY 8 GTO B
29 KEY 9 GTO 99
30 MENU
31 LBL 20
32 STOP
33 GTO 20
So I reiterate my question: would it be possible for KEYG and KEYX to get the key label from X instead of K and to do the drop automatically to go back to a two steps process to define a programmable menu key, as on the HP-42S?
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066 - WP43: 00042
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Walter
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Re: 43S Bug Reports and Maintenance

Post by Walter »

Thanks, Didier, for repeating your request. I'll think about it...
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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