CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
jwiede
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by jwiede »

About six months ago, I was able to track down a long-coveted HP16C at a decent price. Little did I know it would set off a serious descent into CAS!

Over the last 3-4 months, I've acquired 2 HP50g's and a HP PrimeG2, as well as a DM16L (to give the HP16C a break). Today, I finally stopped hemming and hawing and purchased a DM42 as well, hoping that'd at least get my CAS to subside for a while. Hope springs like a banana.

I suspect I'm just scratching an itch that's festered for a long time. Thankfully, while I'll still likely snag a DM43 when it arrives, otherwise I expect the DM42 will be my last CAS-relief purchase for the time being.

Well met, all, and thanks!
-John
DM42(ordered), DM16L(sn:4068)
amafan
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by amafan »

jwiede wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:18 pm

I suspect I'm just scratching an itch that's festered for a long time. Thankfully, while I'll still likely snag a DM43 when it arrives, otherwise I expect the DM42 will be my last CAS-relief purchase for the time being.

Well met, all, and thanks!
-John
Famous last words!
DM41X (#6476), 42 (#458) - HP 17BII, 35(2), 45, HP 27S, 28S, 30B, 41CV, 42S, 48S, 35S, HP10bII+, 12C PLAT
I may have a problem!
jwiede
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by jwiede »

Oh absolutely! On the plus side, I'll have both a DM42, and a PrimeG2 (and even a spare 50g) if I get more urge to work on calculator firmware, so I feel well-covered there. I'm having a blast too catching up on all the 50g usage tips and tricks, and exploring all the content out there already (have the museum USB key, etc.). Plenty to keep me busy waiting for the DM42, at least!
DM42(ordered), DM16L(sn:4068)
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akaTB
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by akaTB »

jwiede wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:18 pm
Thankfully, while I'll still likely snag a DM43 when it arrives, otherwise I expect the DM42 will be my last CAS-relief purchase for the time being.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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cdmackay
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by cdmackay »

have you looked at the DM41X? There's a whole new world there waiting for you… :)
Cambridge, UK
41CL/DM41X 12/15C/16C DM15/16 71B 17B/BII/bII+ 28S 42S/DM42 32SII 48GX 50g 35s 30b/WP34S Prime G2
& Casios, Rockwell 18R :)
jwiede
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by jwiede »

cdmackay wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:21 am
have you looked at the DM41X? There's a whole new world there waiting for you… :)
Aware, but honestly the DM41X doesn't appeal much above/beyond the DM42, IMO. Even if it had module slots, I don't have any modules, nor see many available around I'd care about. From all I can tell, other than module-wise (or _very limited_ personal-organizer-wise), there's not a ton the DM41X can do that the DM42 cannot.

If I'm wildly mistaken there somehow, someone please educate me! Am I missing some major capabilities the DM41X offers that the DM42 does not?

Note:
DM42(ordered), DM16L(sn:4068)
rprosperi
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by rprosperi »

jwiede wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:47 am
...Even if it had module slots, I don't have any modules, nor see many available around I'd care about. From all I can tell, other than module-wise (or _very limited_ personal-organizer-wise), there's not a ton the DM41X can do that the DM42 cannot.

If I'm wildly mistaken there somehow, someone please educate me! Am I missing some major capabilities the DM41X offers that the DM42 does not?
The 41X does not have physical slots, it lets you easily install files, containing ROM images for the modules; one of it's fundamental goals was to provide access to the hundreds of existing ROM image files used by other emulators. So no physical ROM modules are needed, you have access to about 500 ROMs with all imaginable applications.

For writing your own programs in RPN, I agree the DM42 is probably a better choice in most cases, however (ignoring the nostalgia appeal) the 41X gives you immediate access to those hundreds of modules, all the thousands of programs shared in the PPC/CHHU/HPX Journals, and even allows development in NUT assembler using some of the exotic modules such as HEPAX, David Assembler, etc.

The DM42 and DM41X, although representing machines that were somewhat similar and fairly compatible, are quite different and offer very different advantages for vintage HP fans wanting to explore calculations in different ways.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
jwiede
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by jwiede »

rprosperi wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:26 pm
jwiede wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:47 am
...Even if it had module slots, I don't have any modules, nor see many available around I'd care about. From all I can tell, other than module-wise (or _very limited_ personal-organizer-wise), there's not a ton the DM41X can do that the DM42 cannot.

If I'm wildly mistaken there somehow, someone please educate me! Am I missing some major capabilities the DM41X offers that the DM42 does not?
The 41X does not have physical slots, it lets you easily install files, containing ROM images for the modules; one of it's fundamental goals was to provide access to the hundreds of existing ROM image files used by other emulators. So no physical ROM modules are needed, you have access to about 500 ROMs with all imaginable applications.
Right, as I noted before, it actually doesn't have slots.

As to the loading of modules via file, I'm likely misunderstanding, but is the compatibility so different between the DM41X and the DM42 that the DM42 cannot run most of those same programs and libraries once loaded into memory? I was thinking the underlying (emulated) hardware of the two were close enough than stuff which ran on the HP41s would also run on the HP42 once loaded into memory (the big difference being that while HP41s had slots, the HP42 did not, forcing manual entry of everything). However as both DM41X and DM42 _can_ load external files into memory, I thought that resolved the program/library access limitation of the DM42.

What you're saying suggests the hardware difference is more substantial, to the effect that few HP41 programs/libraries will actually run on the DM42. Is that the case? I do have the museum USB as of a few weeks ago, HPCC2021 usb coming, so more-compatible access to the module files / libraries / etc. they contain might be enough reason to purchase a DM41X.
DM42(ordered), DM16L(sn:4068)
rprosperi
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by rprosperi »

A 42 (42S or DM42) can run most 41 programs that use only instructions from the main unit's ROM, whereas the 41's 'vocabulary' is expanded by most of the ROM modules, essentially by adding new commands/instructions which can then be used in your own FOCAL programs. These new commands are written in MCODE (assembler), so they're very fast and typically don't affect the stack, except as needed by that new command.

A typical ROM module will include some new commands (that do some specific function such as unit conversions) as well as some application programs which utilize those new commands (e.g. a Heat Transfer calculation). But there are ROM modules with lots of new commands and no FOCAL programs, and also modules with FOCAL programs and no new commands, it depends on what the module is for.

So, the 41X can have these modules easily installed by copying a .MOD file to the flash storage and using a built-in feature to 'plug-in' the module and then that 41X instantly has all those features available. Each ROM module is 4K or 8K (and a few even 12K) of code, and the 41X can have up to 10 x 4K modules installed (how many depends on many factors) so it can hold a huge amount of programs, all typically pre-made for some specific applications and ready to use.

These modules cannot be used in any kind of 42 directly, as the 42 does not support modules. But note that in some cases, a FOCAL program could be downloaded from a 41 Module, possibly tweaked, and then copied to a 42 and used there, but note that those used could not be programs which use any of the 'new commands' provided by the original module as those commands cannot be copied.

HTH
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
jwiede
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Re: CAS (Calculator Aquisistion Syndrome)

Post by jwiede »

rprosperi wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:36 am
A 42 (42S or DM42) can run most 41 programs that use only instructions from the main unit's ROM, whereas the 41's 'vocabulary' is expanded by most of the ROM modules, essentially by adding new commands/instructions which can then be used in your own FOCAL programs. These new commands are written in MCODE (assembler), so they're very fast and typically don't affect the stack, except as needed by that new command.
Ah, okay, so I didn't quite understand a key difference in their expandability. Hmm, guess I'll need to mull over ordering a DM41X after all.
DM42(ordered), DM16L(sn:4068)
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