May 2021 Speculations

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
ljubo
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by ljubo »

budmur wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 7:58 pm
Michael mentioned that the new product would be "keystroke programmable". I'd love it if they could produce a non-programmable variant. There are many exams (I have one scheduled tomorrow morning) where programmable calculators aren't allowed. This takes every RPN/RPL calculator made in the last 40 years off the list of acceptable devices.
+1 - very much agree - would be cool to bring some rpn calculator to schools/universities - and for that some functionality need to be removed and price should be managable too.

In addition, rpn approach has much more educational value - classical infix approach is more or less just copying symbols from paper to calculator - no need for any thinking or understanding.

And finally - for future of rpn we would need some usage by young people in schools/universities.
HP-15C, DM15L, HP-35S, DM42
Olaf
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:15 am
Location: France

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by Olaf »

Count me in, if there is a ‘load ROM from file…’ entry under the setup key. I might then want to select the HP48-R.ROM file…. :-) ‘ I have a dream.’
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HP48G, DM42 (# 276), a slide rule and a C compiler :-)
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48GX
Posts: 67
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Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by 48GX »

I have suggested this very thing to SM. You and me are on the same page.
HP48GX since 1994
DM42 (4), HP42s, DM41X, HP35s (a lot)
amafan
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:40 pm

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by amafan »

Keyboard programmable, RPN. Don’t we already have this in the current product line up? He did say that all functions would be available directly w/o menus, but I’m not sure that’s important. I don’t know. I guess we’ll see. I’m probably in whatever it is because I want to support SM.

I was also hoping to see some statement on the restock of the CC models. I am glad to hear from Michael.
DM41X (#6476), 42 (#458) - HP 17BII, 35(2), 45, HP 27S, 28S, 30B, 41CV, 42S, 48S, 35S, HP10bII+, 12C PLAT
I may have a problem!
Rmollov
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by Rmollov »

+1
I have no use of calculators whatsoever these days, but will buy whatever SM come up with, just to support them (based partially on nostalgia) :)
Peet
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:01 am
Location: Germany

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by Peet »

ljubo wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 11:31 pm
In addition, rpn approach has much more educational value - classical infix approach is more or less just copying symbols from paper to calculator - no need for any thinking or understanding.
100% agreement with the first part, I also see RPN as an ideal input method for a better understanding of mathematics.
But I have a split opinion about AOS, it has to be learned artificially and does not follow any recognizable logic e.g.: SQRT(1+1/SIN(45))

RPN was a marketing disaster, reverse doesn't sound good and very few people want to learn polish only to use a calculator.
I would have called it NIO (natural input order) for example. Here, too, TI was more creative and chose a name suitable for marketing for their chaotic input system.

HP probably thought TI for the children, HP for scientists - but did not consider that these children would one day become scientists and stick to what they had learned so hard.

I'm afraid it's too late for RPN, TI bought this market decades ago (TI funded school purchases with millions of dollars). Unfortunately, HP also hardly had anything to match the TI30 (in terms of price and availability) in the 1970s.

Even today in North Rhine-Westphalia (where I currently live) a Casio FX-CP400 or a TI-Nspire CX II-T CAS is permitted in schools, but not an HP Prime.

Nevertheless, it is good that SM continues to build RPN calculators for enthusiasts. Perhaps this will also help a few younger people to find RPN.
My programmable calculators - former: CBM PR100, HP41CV, HP28S, HP11C - current: HP48G(+), HP35S, DM41X, DM42
ljubo
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by ljubo »

Peet wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 10:43 am
I'm afraid it's too late for RPN, TI bought this market decades ago (TI funded school purchases with millions of dollars). Unfortunately, HP also hardly had anything to match the TI30 (in terms of price and availability) in the 1970s.

Even today in North Rhine-Westphalia (where I currently live) a Casio FX-CP400 or a TI-Nspire CX II-T CAS is permitted in schools, but not an HP Prime.

Nevertheless, it is good that SM continues to build RPN calculators for enthusiasts. Perhaps this will also help a few younger people to find RPN.
Yes, unfortunately schools are lost - however, even on an university there is no rpn calculator that can be used - I think that removing programming functionality and adding a simple label “Non programmable” would improve situation. Also direct access functions (as opposed to menu-based) would make it more uni-compatible. One would need to check uni rules - probably also solver and integration has to be removed. Not sure about complex numbers and matrix support.

@SwissMicros - think about it - such calculator would be perfect present for beginning of study :D
HP-15C, DM15L, HP-35S, DM42
elgarak
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:47 pm

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by elgarak »

ljubo wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:17 pm
Peet wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 10:43 am
I'm afraid it's too late for RPN, TI bought this market decades ago (TI funded school purchases with millions of dollars). Unfortunately, HP also hardly had anything to match the TI30 (in terms of price and availability) in the 1970s.

Even today in North Rhine-Westphalia (where I currently live) a Casio FX-CP400 or a TI-Nspire CX II-T CAS is permitted in schools, but not an HP Prime.

Nevertheless, it is good that SM continues to build RPN calculators for enthusiasts. Perhaps this will also help a few younger people to find RPN.
Yes, unfortunately schools are lost - however, even on an university there is no rpn calculator that can be used - I think that removing programming functionality and adding a simple label “Non programmable” would improve situation. Also direct access functions (as opposed to menu-based) would make it more uni-compatible. One would need to check uni rules - probably also solver and integration has to be removed. Not sure about complex numbers and matrix support.

@SwissMicros - think about it - such calculator would be perfect present for beginning of study :D
Agreed -- though the removal of solver and integration, while it is mostly not allowed, is pretty much useless. I have studied physics, and I have NEVER been in a written exam with a calculator allowed where the availability of numerical tools would have been helpful to gain enough points to pass. They were only ever extra points, nice to have, but not essential. Even the programmability of an HP15 would have been not at all helpful. In the early 1990s the rule most people agreed on was "no alphabetic keyboard (and display)". So the HP15 would have been in, the HP41 out.
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48GX
Posts: 67
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Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by 48GX »

The HP35s is approved for every professional certification test I have had to take. It’s the reason I purchased one. I used the calculator for a year before realizing it was programmable. 🤪 I have come to use this calculator daily over my 48GX because the 48 models are failing more often on me.

As far as schools go, that ship has sailed. My son enters seventh grade next year and will be allowed to use a 48GX over a TI. Special permission had to be gained as none of the teachers use an HP or understand RPN. If he wasn’t so talented in math, I’m not sure they would have allowed it. I did start him out on the 48 so he would be comfortable with it years ago. He doesn’t know any better at this point. 😉 But he does know he isn’t going to use a TI and allow the calculator decide the operations for him.

Someone start the preorder up for this calculator. It’s taken four weeks for my latest 42 and 41X to arrive. 🧐
HP48GX since 1994
DM42 (4), HP42s, DM41X, HP35s (a lot)
johanw
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Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 6:41 pm

Re: May 2021 Speculations

Post by johanw »

elgarak wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:27 pm
I have studied physics, and I have NEVER been in a written exam with a calculator allowed where the availability of numerical tools would have been helpful to gain enough points to pass.
I have. I studied applied physics and I still have nightmares about my linear algabra 3 exam which I had to do 7 times to pass... Question 1 was always "Given the complex matrix A = ..., calculate the eigenvalues and eigenvectors". I always made some mistake that caused the answer to be horrible so I got stuck in the later questions that used it, while the answer was usually quite simple.

A 15C would have helped me a lot. They were available brand new then but (a) I didn't know they could do matrix math then and (b) I could probably not have afforded one anyway. My money was put in a Casio FX-8000G which I could not use on most exams. But exam rules were not very formal, if the calculator looked "simple" enough you were allowed to use it.
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