Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
c0rpse
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Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by c0rpse » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:22 pm

Hello everyone! I'm excited to find out about SwissMicros and the calculator community!

I work at a hardware synthesizer and audio fx company as a designer and embedded software engineer. I've been using a simple TI-30XIIS for years that recently died.

Looking for a replacement, the DM16L was already on my radar, attracted to the bitwise functions and base conversions, stuff I use daily.

Now that I've seen the DM42 my mind has been opened to how much more utility I could be getting out of a well set up calculator. I have to read schematics all the time and I don't have much confidence in calculating op-amp gains, so I usually ask one of our hardware guys to help me get the info. Having a nice repository of these equations ready to go as programs is a real eye-opener! I'm sure it's obvious and necessary in more rigorous industries.

In order to not get too far ahead of myself with buying things, I started evaluating Free42 and the Web 16C Emulator. I still can't decide because I love them both!
-Free42 is so easy to use. Very intuitive menu system for customization, compared to my last powerful calculator the TI-84.
-The 16C has my most used features right there ready to go. It also uses periods as byte separators in binary mode. This is incredibly helpful for me!

I'm pretty sure I'm getting a DM42 because of the obvious utility and killer interface. The few things the DM16L can do uniquely, could probably be emulated on the DM42.

Is buying a DM16L as well the DM42 redundant? Does anyone keep both on their desk?

grsbanks
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by grsbanks » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:37 pm

Definitely not redundant.

The DM42 does some of the operations that a DM16L can do, as in adding and substracting numbers of variable word width in bases 2, 8 10 and 16 and performing basic logical operations. If that's all you want and you don't need it all the time then sure, you needn't really bother with the DM16L. If you're doing this kind of thing all the time then you're going to want a machine that is designed specifically for this, and that's where the DM16L comes into its own.

I own any number of machines capable of binary operations, including the DM42, the HP 48G, 50g, several Casios and others. But when I'm coding and I need to see exactly what's happening in a 32-bit (or other width) binary word, then the DM16L (or HP-16C) is well and truly on the desk. It makes life so much easier.
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

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Walter
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by Walter » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:30 pm

If you want both function sets in one calculator, look for a WP34S - available since 2011. It's a repurposed (i.e. flashed) HP-30b. Google a bit and you will find where you can get it.

If you have a little time, you can wait for a WP43S alternatively - it will be a flashed DM42, but with a dedicated keyboard and bezel. You find relevant information about it on this forum.

Just FYI in addition to grsbank's post.
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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pauli
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by pauli » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:32 am

The 16C has a lot more binary functions than the 42, I generally do a lot of these in my head rather than using a calculator but some people swear by it.

The 16C supports floating point which will do the op-amp gain calculations via a program.


The 34S does all of both and more but it's getting more difficult to obtain.


Pauli

EM41
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by EM41 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:49 am

There is a HP16 emulator for the HP41 / DM41X in theory this could run also on the DM42.
(Or just buy the DM41X)
I have no experience myself but the authors hang around here.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-4663.html
HP41C (2x), HP41CV, HP41CX, DM41X β, DM41X, DM42, HP11C, HP48G, HP97

rprosperi
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by rprosperi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:31 pm

EM41 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:49 am
There is a HP16 emulator for the HP41 / DM41X in theory this could run also on the DM42.
(Or just buy the DM41X)
I have no experience myself but the authors hang around here.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-4663.html
FYI - That excellent 16C Emulator is an MCODE (assembly language) ROM module for the 41C (or 41X or other 41 emulators) and it provides ALL the 16C features plus some others, however it cannot be used on a DM42; 41 FOCAL (user code) programs can be easily ported to the 42S/DM42 but you cannot do that with MCODE programs/modules.

As for the original question, nearly everyone that uses a 16C has found there is no substitute (the above emulator is an exception) so you probably should get both 16C and DM42, with no fears of redundancy. They are both excellent tools and you won't regret getting them.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071, DM10L: 071/100

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Jaymos
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by Jaymos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:11 am

c0rpse wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:22 pm
-The 16C has my most used features right there ready to go. It also uses periods as byte separators in binary mode. This is incredibly helpful for me!
I am trying to put together a useful and modern 16C replacement by modifying the WP43S.
Below a screen capture while in #BASE mode, displaying register X on the bottom row, also the same number in base 2, 8, 16 simultaneously:
.
Clipboard29.png
Clipboard29.png (4.14 KiB) Viewed 623 times
The menu features commonly used shortcuts inspired by both HP16C and HP42S.
I'm pretty sure I'm getting a DM42 because of the obvious utility and killer interface. The few things the DM16L can do uniquely, could probably be emulated on the DM42.
I am sure DM42 is a good choice as it gives you the option of using Free42 which you already like, natively on the DM42 and of course the possibility of using C43 on the same DM42 platform.
Last edited by Jaymos on Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) running on DM42 sn. 03818, HP42S for complex math; 32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.

Dan Simpson
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by Dan Simpson » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:38 am

A DM41X with Håkan Thörngren‘s Ladybug module is also a great alternative.
My Spirit animal is a Basset Hound.
My Collection: HP-55, HP-67 (Teenix Mod), HP-15C, HP-16C, HP-41CV, HP-41CX, SY41-CL (x2), DM41X (Beta), DM42, HP-42S, HP-71B (x2), HP-150.

c0rpse
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by c0rpse » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:56 pm

pauli wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:32 am
The 16C supports floating point which will do the op-amp gain calculations via a program.
This is a great point. The DM16L will really do everything I need at this moment, so if I want to save some money I should just get that.

The motivation to also buy the DM42 comes from the spark of inspiration it's given me. Learning how other professionals use their calculators at work has motivated me to document and use those hardware equations that will help me do my job faster, and to dig back in to some of the core math that pushes me away from fully working my way through certain DSP papers. Right now it's imaginary numbers, for solving certain non-linearities in filter feedback paths.

The overloaded buttons of the 41x are not for me. The 42 interface really suits me. It's simple to use like my TI-30XIIS, but it feels like it has endless possibilities under the hood.

I guess I'm going to wait another week or two, while continuing to use these awesome emulators, to see how my motivation toward brushing up my math skills is. :lol:

tgray
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Re: Is purchasing DM16L as well as DM42 redundant?

Post by tgray » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:13 pm

DM42 now let’s you change word size for base calculations. It lets me do everything I need to do, but I’m not a real coder and don’t work with digital hardware. I’m sure the DM16 gives you some functions which might be nice.

I did want to point out that one of the nice features of the DM42 is that it runs Free42, which you can also put on your phone. You can copy over programs and calculator state from phone to calculator and vice versa. It’s very convenient for me to be able to use the same programs on my phone when I don’t have my calculator with me.

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