WP43 Pilot Run (Poll!)

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

Walter wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:48 pm
But prima facie, I don't get what's the benefit of a shifted x^2 -
The benefit is the menu does not change and you do not have to think where in which menu the "hidden" key would be. Additionally the yellow or blue labels have a destinct benefit over the same item in a menu: you see it all the time, with or without other menus opening and closing.
no keystroke less than [EXP] [x^2]. Same for your shifted y^x.
Disagree - You have to add the EXIT key to remove the menu as well. Therefore it is one keystroke more: [EXP] [x^2] EXIT.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Walter
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Walter »

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:43 am
Walter wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:48 pm
But prima facie, I don't get what's the benefit of a shifted x^2 - no keystroke less than [EXP] [x^2]. Same for your shifted y^x.
Disagree - You have to add the EXIT key to remove the menu as well. Therefore it is one keystroke more: [EXP] [x^2] EXIT.
Remember you don't have to exit: stay with EXP and you execute x^2 with one (!) keystroke only, or simply call another menu if you need it. No [EXIT] required. Stay calm and carry on. No long pressing, no double clicks - KISS (TM)
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

Walter wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:41 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:43 am
Walter wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:48 pm
But prima facie, I don't get what's the benefit of a shifted x^2 - no keystroke less than [EXP] [x^2]. Same for your shifted y^x.
Disagree - You have to add the EXIT key to remove the menu as well. Therefore it is one keystroke more: [EXP] [x^2] EXIT.
Remember you don't have to exit: stay with EXP and you execute x^2 with one (!) keystroke only, or simply call another menu if you need it. No [EXIT] required. Stay calm and carry on. No long pressing, no double clicks - KISS (TM)
May be so. ENTER x has worked for years. But then otoh maybe you need sin again, or God forbid Polar. It is not an argument - different constraints cause different solutions. In the end you can put all you want in Mymenu. Powerful.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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rudi
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by rudi »

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:11 am
.
.
.

May be so. ENTER x has worked for years. But then otoh maybe you need sin again, or God forbid Polar. It is not an argument - different constraints cause different solutions. In the end you can put all you want in Mymenu. Powerful.
… and if you don’t want to pop the T register, RCL* . X also works ;-)
(At least on a DM42, not so sure with the 43?)
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
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H2X
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by H2X »

Walter wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:41 am
No long pressing, no double clicks - KISS (TM)
Different strokes for different folks ;-)
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
redglyph
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Walter wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:48 pm
But prima facie, I don't get what's the benefit of a shifted x^2 - no keystroke less than [EXP] [x^2]. Same for your shifted y^x. So the advocatus diaboli asks: Why 'waste' two free keyboard locations for that pointless shifting?
Note: I see you're quoting my last post, you may have missed my post on the previous page where I explain it in more details: viewtopic.php?p=23914#p23914 (and the discussion below it)

Wouldn't you agree that x² is very frequent in calculus? Currently it's not on the keyboard, so that's one extra keystroke: EXP x² EXIT instead of f x². As I explained, the menu will usually be used for something else so the user has to come back to it ("when using TRI, CONST, STAT together with x² (sin², μ², ...)").

It's the same number of keystrokes if no menu is opened, but so on average it's still more than 2 keystrokes, and there's no visibility of an important operator. The same goes for y^x to a lesser extent.

(And yes, ENTER * works as work-around, but it uses one more stack slot and there are only 4 of them.)

Then, the locations are not 'wasted' since they were not used in the first place. The keys are still user-customizable if someone prefers something else. Following that logic, why not remove other functions from the keyboard like x! and || (I doubt this last one is ever used by the majority of users, and factorial is not used in many domains either).

Walter wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:48 pm
Minor points: The link between [E], DSP, and DISP is far stronger than between [8], DSP, and DISP, isn't it? And MOD and MODE are very close to each other but have no relationship - users may confuse these labels easily in your layout.
I don't see the first point to be honest. As I said in my earlier post, E is related to value entry (like α), whereas DSP and DISP are related to the display of stack values (like MODE). As such, they are strongly related to MODE. That view seemed to be shared with Jaymos, so it looks like we can see that from different perspectives and ultimately there's a part of subjectivity and habit.

I don't think the proximity will make user confuse keys, and if that happens it will only be because they don't know the calculator. They may be confused with the current layout as well. Besides, MODE is clearly underlined to indicate a menu.
Walter wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:48 pm
At the bottom line, it's the best user suggestion I've seen here so far (congratulations!) - but I'm not convinced it's better than the present layout. Just my personal opinion, of course.
It's your project so that's of course your prerogative. :)

EDIT: I only see now that there were other replies, sorry if there's some redundancy.
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Walter
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Walter »

First of all, who needs to care about stack slots when you've got eight (8) of them?

For the extra keystroke you claim, please see my post above (you can reach x^2 with 1 keystroke on my layout).

And for the rest, we may agree to disagree.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
redglyph
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Walter wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:30 pm
First of all, who needs to care about stack slots when you've got eight (8) of them?

For the extra keystroke you claim, please see my post above (you can reach x^2 with 1 keystroke on my layout).

And for the rest, we may agree to disagree.
I'm sorry you're ignoring my argument about the menus, even if I've mentioned that several times.

I see you don't want to change so I'll stop trying. I understand how it's difficult to adapt to others' views when one has a pet project, it's perfectly understandable.
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Walter
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Walter »

Although you might not believe it, also I have a family and friends and sometimes simply lack time to answer every user idea in depth immediately. I beg for your pardon, hoping you do better with your projects.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

Walter wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:47 am
Although you might not believe it, also I have a family and friends and sometimes simply lack time to answer every user idea in depth immediately. I beg for your pardon, hoping you do better with your projects.
We do have life interfering and I respect that. “I’ll get to it” would certainly be understood. Your insight on this proposal would be appreciated even if it takes time. I did not think that key counting would be your only concern amongst the good points stated.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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