WP43 Pilot Run (Poll!)

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
ctrclckws
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:30 pm

Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by ctrclckws »

Enjoying the discussion about key layout, but shouldn't it be in the other WP-43S thread?
Also, very difficult to please everyone with a limited set of keys and so many possible functions.

Some things will be unimportant to some people, and the same will be very important to others.
in the other thread there was a long discussion about what should appear where on the keyboard. Several tweaks were done.
There is even a specialty compile that focuses more on complex numbers and I believe making minimal changes relative to the DM42 keyboard.

Within those two efforts, there was also cross-pollination that has aided both flavors of the WP-43S.

Waiting patiently for the opportunity to have a hardware implementation.
Yes, I know I could dedicate a DM42 to the current software, but, for myself, I am not ready to do that.
Last edited by ctrclckws on Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
DM10, DM10L: 00031 / DM11, DM11L: 00112 / DM12, DM12L: 02074
DM15, DM15L: 11069 / DM16. DM16L: 02001 / DM41, DM41L: 00859
DM41X: 00036ß / 00181 DM42: 3108 / 6084 WP43: 0032
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rudi
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by rudi »

Yes - you’re right. Admin, feel free to delete or move my posts here in the poll thread.

Edit 11/8-22: I have moved the keyboard layout related post, sorry...
viewtopic.php?p=23637#p23637
Last edited by rudi on Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
Denmark
redglyph
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Perhaps it was late to discuss the keyboard any further, I just saw there was some unoccupied spots so I thought it was still being tuned. Seeing it's hard to pull one thread without tearing the whole fabric apart shows that it's probably over-constrained as it is.

But it's all good since those free spots can be used by anyone in user mode for one's own important functions.

Yes, the posts can be deleted, or moved into a specific thread if Walter thinks there's any use for that at this point.
redglyph
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Here is what I hope is a better attempt. :) Let me know if that's worth considering and if so, whether I should post it elsewhere (gitlab?).

The labels above 3 keys are modified: (SQRT), E and 7.

Before:
  • α and α.FN are not related to √
  • DSP and DISP are remotely related to E (mantissa / exponent representation of numbers)
  • 7 has no label
  • x² and x^y require changing the menu, quite annoying for ex. when using TRI, CONST, STAT together with x² (sin², μ², ...)
After:
  • x² and x^y are directly accessible without changing the menu, and they are related to √
  • DSP and DISP are adjacent and related to MODE since they specify how values are displayed
  • α and α.FN are remotely related to E since they all deal with entering a new value into X
wp34s_01.png
wp34s_01.png (131.3 KiB) Viewed 954 times
Original, highlighting the modified keys:
wp34s_00d.png
wp34s_00d.png (130.23 KiB) Viewed 954 times
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

redglyph wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 am
Here is what I hope is a better attempt. :) Let me know if that's worth considering and if so, whether I should post it elsewhere (gitlab?).

The labels above 3 keys are modified: (SQRT), E and 7.

Before:
  • α and α.FN are not related to √
  • DSP and DISP are remotely related to E (mantissa / exponent representation of numbers)
  • 7 has no label
  • x² and x^y require changing the menu, quite annoying for ex. when using TRI, CONST, STAT together with x² (sin², μ², ...)
After:
  • x² and x^y are directly accessible without changing the menu, and they are related to √
  • DSP and DISP are adjacent and related to MODE since they specify how values are displayed
  • α and α.FN are remotely related to E since they all deal with entering a new value into X
wp34s_01.png

Original, highlighting the modified keys:
wp34s_00d.png

I think this is a good effort which can be discussed. I see no immediate no’s and I see sensible benefits of the proposal only. But then, I am not the one to be convinced - I do support your thinking fwiw. Walter has an amazing tendency to find possible real problems in grouping and layouts in various modes etc., so give him chance to reflect.
  • I do like your arrangement where DISP now sits next to MODE again (They were a pair for years on WP43S, albeit the other way round - although the shifted 7 and 8 labels could arguably be swapped, to return to the original HP42S sequence of MODE being on the left of DISP).
  • I like your closer proximity of α to f. That is a combo that will be frequently used.
  • I love the power cluster at Square Root. Excuse the pun.
Let's hear of any cons I cannot think of.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
redglyph
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Thanks for the feedback! :)
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:18 pm
although the shifted 7 and 8 labels could arguably be swapped, to return to the original HP42S sequence of MODE being on the left of DISP).
Yes, there might be an opportunity there, I just didn't want to change too many things at the same time. On the other hand, DSP and DISP are working hand in hand and they fit together nicely, so either would be fine for me.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

redglyph wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:16 pm
Thanks for the feedback! :)
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:18 pm
although the shifted 7 and 8 labels could arguably be swapped, to return to the original HP42S sequence of MODE being on the left of DISP).
Yes, there might be an opportunity there, I just didn't want to change too many things at the same time. On the other hand, DSP and DISP are working hand in hand and they fit together nicely, so either would be fine for me.
I meant swapping all 7 and 8 shifted lables including DSP
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
redglyph
Posts: 177
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:29 pm
I meant swapping all 7 and 8 shifted lables including DSP
Right, not sure how I managed to misunderstand that. So the layout below? I don't have any preference either, both are fine.
wp34s_02.png
wp34s_02.png (131.47 KiB) Viewed 894 times
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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

That's what I meant;
now, what are we not seeing? ;-)
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Walter
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Walter »

redglyph wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:47 pm
Right, not sure how I managed to misunderstand that. So the layout below? I don't have any preference either, both are fine.
Yes in principle. Looks nice. You fulfill all requirements I set up in the ReM, chapter Layouting. And there's certainly a better link from SQRT to x^2 and y^x than to [alpha] and alpha.FN. [alpha] is still well accessible. As I said already, yes in principle.

But prima facie, I don't get what's the benefit of a shifted x^2 - no keystroke less than [EXP] [x^2]. Same for your shifted y^x. So the advocatus diaboli asks: Why 'waste' two free keyboard locations for that pointless shifting?

Minor points: The link between [E], DSP, and DISP is far stronger than between [8], DSP, and DISP, isn't it? And MOD and MODE are very close to each other but have no relationship - users may confuse these labels easily in your layout.

I didn't investigate in depth for further possible obstacles.

At the bottom line, it's the best user suggestion I've seen here so far (congratulations!) - but I'm not convinced it's better than the present layout. Just my personal opinion, of course.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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