43S Stack Register Designation

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
toml_12953
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

43S Stack Register Designation

Post by toml_12953 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 am

Would it be easier to relate documentation to the operation of the 43S if, in 8-level stack mode, the stack registers are labeled X Y Z A B C D T so that T always refers to the top stack level that gets duplicated downward regardless of whether the stack is 4- or 8-level?
Tom L

:geek:

DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by Walter » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:34 am

Yes, in principle, but you suggested this notation for both 4- and 8-level stacks, so:
  1. what shall happen with the contents of level T when you expand the stack from 4 to 8 levels?
  2. what shall happen with the contents of T when you reduce the stack from 8 to 4 levels?
  3. same questions for A, B, C, and D.
  4. do you want the 5 upper levels changing names or their contents being moved or ...?
Thanks in advance for enlightenment.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by H2X » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:37 am

Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:34 am
Yes, in principle, but you suggested this notation for both 4- and 8-level stacks, so:
  1. what shall happen with the contents of level T when you expand the stack from 4 to 8 levels?
  2. what shall happen with the contents of T when you reduce the stack from 8 to 4 levels?
  3. same questions for A, B, C, and D.
  4. do you want the 5 upper levels changing names or their contents being moved or ...?
Thanks in advance for enlightenment.
Interesting to learn that changing the stack size is intended to work mid-calculation!
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by Walter » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:24 pm

H2X wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:37 am
Interesting to learn that changing the stack size is intended to work mid-calculation!
As it did with the WP34S and 31S already. 8-)
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

toml_12953
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by toml_12953 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:20 pm

Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:34 am
Yes, in principle, but you suggested this notation for both 4- and 8-level stacks, so:
  1. what shall happen with the contents of level T when you expand the stack from 4 to 8 levels?
  2. what shall happen with the contents of T when you reduce the stack from 8 to 4 levels?
  3. same questions for A, B, C, and D.
  4. do you want the 5 upper levels changing names or their contents being moved or ...?
Thanks in advance for enlightenment.
What does the 34s do? Maybe the 43S could do one of these for example:

I had never thought about changing the stack size mid-calculation although why you'd want to reduce stack size in the middle of a calculation is a mystery to me. In that case, the alternate 4- to 8-level arrangement would be best.

Code: Select all

          Before                          After                 Alternate 8-Level
           4-Level                        8 Level
            T   4                            T     4                 T  0
            Z   3                            D     0                 D  0
            Y   2                            C     0                 C  0
            X   1                            B     0                 B  0
                                             A     0                 A  4
                                             Z     3                 Z  3
                                             Y     2                 Y  2
                                             X     1                 X  1
                                              
           Before                         After                Alternate 4-Level
           8-Level                      4 Level
           T  8                            T  8                     T  4
           D  7                            Z  3                     Z  3
           C  6                            Y  2                     Y  2
           B  5                            X  1                     X  1
           A  4
           Z  3
           Y  2
           X  1    
Tom L

:geek:

DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by H2X » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 pm

toml_12953 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:20 pm
Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:34 am
Yes, in principle, but you suggested this notation for both 4- and 8-level stacks, so:
  1. what shall happen with the contents of level T when you expand the stack from 4 to 8 levels?
  2. what shall happen with the contents of T when you reduce the stack from 8 to 4 levels?
  3. same questions for A, B, C, and D.
  4. do you want the 5 upper levels changing names or their contents being moved or ...?
Thanks in advance for enlightenment.
What does the 34s do? Maybe the 43S could do one of these for example:

I had never thought about changing the stack size mid-calculation although why you'd want to reduce stack size in the middle of a calculation is a mystery to me. In that case, the alternate 4- to 8-level arrangement would be best.

Code: Select all

          Before                          After                 Alternate 8-Level
           4-Level                        8 Level
            T   4                            T     4                 T  0
            Z   3                            D     0                 D  0
            Y   2                            C     0                 C  0
            X   1                            B     0                 B  0
                                             A     0                 A  4
                                             Z     3                 Z  3
                                             Y     2                 Y  2
                                             X     1                 X  1
                                              
           Before                         After                Alternate 4-Level
           8-Level                      4 Level
           T  8                            T  8                     T  4
           D  7                            Z  3                     Z  3
           C  6                            Y  2                     Y  2
           B  5                            X  1                     X  1
           A  4
           Z  3
           Y  2
           X  1    
Wouldn't you have to copy the 4-level T value into 8-level ABCD (as well as T) registers, in order to not drop zero values into your calculation?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by Walter » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:57 pm

toml_12953 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:20 pm
What does the 34s do? Maybe the 43S could do one of these for example:

I had never thought about changing the stack size mid-calculation although why you'd want to reduce stack size in the middle of a calculation is a mystery to me.
We simply allow the user to change stack size at any time, no limits. So mid-calculation size changes may happen. 8-)

What the WP34S and 31S do can be found most easily with these calculators and/or in their manuals. :o ;)

I'll spare you the time searching and finding excuses why you don't use them. :oops: Quoting the WP34S manual I happen to have at hand on my HDD:
Note that the register contents will remain unchanged in this operation.
So reducing stack size simply means cutting off the top 4 levels returning them to the pool of global general purpose registers. And expanding stack size means allocating 4 extra registers then participating in stack mechanics (far easier than elementary quantum mechanics, BTW).

Rest assured the WP31 works the same way. And the 43S will work the same way unless you can demonstrate any other (more complicated) method has significant advantages. That's going to be your task though. 8-)
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by H2X » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:40 pm

Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:57 pm
And expanding stack size means allocating 4 extra registers then participating in stack mechanics (far easier than elementary quantum mechanics, BTW).
Initializing their values to zero - or the value of the 4-level T register?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

toml_12953
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by toml_12953 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:53 pm

Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:57 pm
We simply allow the user to change stack size at any time, no limits. So mid-calculation size changes may happen. 8-)
Of course with RPN, there's no way of knowing if the person is in the middle of a calculation or not! A full stack may be left over from other calculations so, yeah, you should allow a change at any time.
Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:57 pm
What the WP34S and 31S do can be found most easily with these calculators and/or in their manuals. :o ;)

I'll spare you the time searching and finding excuses why you don't use them. :oops:
Since I have no interest in the 34 or 31, I didn't have a copy of the manual. The other 40 or 50 calculators in which I am interested keep me busy enough!
Walter wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:57 pm
Rest assured the WP31 works the same way. And the 43S will work the same way unless you can demonstrate any other (more complicated) method has significant advantages. That's going to be your task though. 8-)
Forget it! I like consistency. Since those do it that way, I'd agree to continue using the same method for the 43S. Don't let me be a guastafesta (spelling?) or party pooper as my mother used to call me. :?
Last edited by toml_12953 on Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tom L

:geek:

DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S Stack Register Designation

Post by Walter » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:04 pm

Ok, thanks Tom, with your approval we'll continue the way we started with the WP34S.
(Meanwhile, please learn quoting in a forum thread - it's very similar to setting parentheses properly. You can even correct it after posting.)

And to Haakon (H2X): Why should we initialize anything? It will pop out the stack anyway. And if we want to load the stack with anything, we'd just press FILL.

Enjoy!
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

Post Reply