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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:35 am
by Dani R.
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:47 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:48 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:27 pm


What do you mean with [CLX/A]?
I have removed CLSTK from F6 because I added CLSTK to the long press CLR, and I wanted the top part of the calculator for more direct math.
... are in NIM you can't call CLX/A just like that ( on the HP-41C this function is on f[BSP]). I had thought that if F6 is free, you can find this function there. But actually I got used to cancel the NIM with EXIT a long time ago and afterwards the key [BSP] has the functionality CLX...

I am still intrigued with this functionality during NIM.
In the WP43 series, the function of f[<-] can be different for each different calculator mode.

Is it feasible to specify the expected behaviour more specifically to me for f[<-] during NIM?

Maybe it can simply work in NIM?
I know I've been coming with this theme from time to time. CLX/CLA directly accessible with the "Gold" key is still from the time of the HP-41C. This one had no menus yet. But USER keys. The HP42S introduced the menus and hid CLX/CLA in menus. Which makes them actually no longer usable. I think it was Thomas who pointed out to us all that you can leave the NIM at any time with EXIT. So CLX is no longer an issue for me, I have got used to the workaround with EXIT.

I almost dare not say it, because there is a danger that it will be implemented quickly. But here are two thoughts anyway. 1) We don't have an auto repeat yet, so you can't just keep the BSP key pressed, and digit by digit is deleted. I think this is a good thing, auto repeat should never be introduced on a calculator. 2) We already have Long Press Commands. It is conceivable that in NIM the Long Press of BSP could trigger a CLX. Just like that, as another Easter egg and without any urgent reason to want to introduce this extension as well.



Concerning the assignment of default functions to the function keys when no other menu is open, I still haven't found a solid reason to contradict this idea. But I have also not found a reason for doing so. I would have rather imagined functionalities like the DM42, 'SETUP' etc.. But yes, you can also implement it that way. But as already mentioned, I would put 'PI' on F6 and put another or no or a programmable function on F1.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:06 am
by H2X
Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:35 am
I almost dare not say it, because there is a danger that it will be implemented quickly. But here are two thoughts anyway.

1) We don't have an auto repeat yet, so you can't just keep the BSP key pressed, and digit by digit is deleted. I think this is a good thing, auto repeat should never be introduced on a calculator.
Never say never, there might be a really good use case for it, but until that use case comes up - and is justifiable - and this is not it - I'm totally with Dani.
Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:35 am
2) We already have Long Press Commands. It is conceivable that in NIM the Long Press of BSP could trigger a CLX. Just like that, as another Easter egg and without any urgent reason to want to introduce this extension as well.
I agree. Conceivable, yes. Urgent, no.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:09 am
by Dani R.
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:34 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:42 pm
..., I support the proposal to add the extended functionality of SHOW to the VIEW function, which would relieve SHOW of the need to scroll through the numeric registers. 8-)

The layout police

I have now for testing purposes separated the new SHOW and the OLD show functions. The old one does not have arrows and no large print. The new one has arrows and cycles through XYZTABCDIJKL then again X, and shows text, short integers, longints, reals and complex numbers.

For the time being (until 43S completes the VIEW command) I hooked the new SHOW function to the existing VIEW label f[0]. On the old SHOW label, it simply does the old SHOW function. Have a look. I have not integrated the new SHOW code into the main project (edit: this means SHOW is still a test branch) as yet, but this compile is up to date with everything including the last 43S updates.

I also realised that VIEW will work better on f[0] than on g[0], same as SHOW, which is also on f. I therefore swapped VIEW to f[0] and TIMER to g[0]. I trust this is ok, do make a noise if not.

I'm a little complicit in causing some confusion here. This is probably also due to the fact that I did not pay enough attention to the definitions for SHOW and VIEW and their use cases.

As I understood it, the SHOW function is a magnifying glass function that displays all digits regardless of the DISP mode. In the simulator it is probably less needed, because you can copy the contents of the X-Register anywhere at any time. On the DM hardware it makes sense that all these characters are displayed readable, so that you could actually write them down. Therefore the planned extension in WP43C is to be welcomed. Additionally you can now scroll through the different registers with the cursor keys and get the exact content displayed independent of the DISP mode. If it does not collide with the cursor keys otherwise, why not. I would refrain from scrolling through the numeric registers as well.

VIEW is used above all in the programs to display any register, even a stack register, without changing the stack. VIEW is not yet implemented in WP43C. Probably I pointed with one of my previous remarks in the wrong direction. You have to think again what you want from VIEW. Maybe we have to wait until this function is implemented in WP43S. One consideration is that a kind of magnifying glass is also activated with VIEW, since the stack is not affected. This magnifying glass will probably have to take the DISP mode into account and not simply display all digits like SHOW. Or there is an additional configuration (which you forget to activate) which determines whether you want to use the normal VIEW or the SHOWVIEW.

Long story short, it's probably better not to use the SHOW extensions on VIEW at this time.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:27 am
by toml_12953
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
inautilus wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:56 pm
UPDATE - WP43C 2020-03-13

As always, critical feedback welcome. :)
.
Thanks ...
As for the "Y" and "N" being white, I picked up right away why as an English speaking native, just as Sylvain would have if the "O" and "N" were white, the "S" and "N" for Massimo, etc. Nice use of color tones, something not done often enough.
My Grandmother would rather have J and N. :)

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:39 am
by H2X
toml_12953 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:27 am
My Grandmother would rather have J and N. :)
And I'd love to have an OFFIMG of her using her WP43C. Please share! :mrgreen:

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:43 am
by Dani R.
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:46 pm
ASN K.PK
ASN A.PK
ASN KPAC

Dropped PAC. And KPC.
Raised K.PK.
Added A.PK.

ASN K.PK is high due to external support.
ASN A.PK is held equally high by me at the moment due to the repeating of the “A”. Almost easier on the eye. Almost alliteration.

Template.

I vote for anything with a template.

assign template
key template
user template
...

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:57 am
by H2X
Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:09 am
Long story short, it's probably better not to use the SHOW extensions on VIEW at this time.
I might have started this by suggesting that the arrow keys might be used to cycle through values from other registers while SHOW is active (similar to a modal dialog).

I was primarily thinking of stack and LASTx registers (so you wouldn't have to exit and reenter the SHOW mode and mess with / rotate the stack) and constants (which you might want to write down in full precision).

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:09 pm
by Jaymos
Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:43 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:46 pm
ASN K.PK
ASN A.PK
ASN KPAC

Dropped PAC. And KPC.
Raised K.PK.
Added A.PK.

ASN K.PK is high due to external support.
ASN A.PK is held equally high by me at the moment due to the repeating of the “A”. Almost easier on the eye. Almost alliteration.

Template.

I vote for anything with a template.

assign template
key template
user template
...
I think ‘template’ has no ring to it. I like the dot notation. I like the ‘pack’ idea, and with the spelling of ‘pk’ not to confuse with pc. I like the more compact word ‘key’ as opposed to ‘assign’. The abbreviation reads like the other dot examples clearly as ‘key pack’. Unless I get more comments (which I’d welcome) it seems the die is falling on ‘K.PK’. I will include this label on the simulator that I am almost ready to release tonight or tomorrow.

(Even then, good suggestions can change labels or change them around.)

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:16 pm
by Jaymos
Long story short, it's probably better not to use the SHOW extensions on VIEW at this time.
Good summary Dani.

Just to confirm, ‘VIEW’ was only used temporarily so people can see the old and new next to one another, to compare.

I will take the new SHOW off VIEW tonight and integrate the new SHOW into our main distribution as SHOW.

I am not including storage registers. Only the lettered registers, always starting at X.

J

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:17 pm
by Jaymos
H2X wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:39 am
toml_12953 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:27 am
My Grandmother would rather have J and N. :)
And I'd love to have an OFFIMG of her using her WP43C. Please share! :mrgreen:
What would you do to have a letter for JEIN.... mmm