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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:20 pm
by H2X
Walter wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:20 am
H2X wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:10 pm
Walter wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:15 pm
How about KPC? SCNR 8-)
I think you're (3260) lightyears ahead of us... 8-)
3 261.563 777 8-)
IMMD 8-)

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
by rprosperi
inautilus wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:56 pm
UPDATE - WP43C 2020-03-13

As always, critical feedback welcome. :)
.
Thanks ...
Really nice work inautilis!

After reading the comments (and looking at a large blow-up) about alignment of the bottom row of alpha comments, it of course does make sense, but I can say I looked long and hard and had not noticed; being at the bottom, it stick out less.

As for the "Y" and "N" being white, I picked up right away why as an English speaking native, just as Sylvain would have if the "O" and "N" were white, the "S" and "N" for Massimo, etc. Nice use of color tones, something not done often enough.

Although I've followed this thread, I had not really planned on re-purposing a DM42 as a DM43C, but the collective refinement and cleverness that has gone into this, and now this beautiful overly, have convinced me to give it a go once the overlays are ready.

It will be interesting to see/use side-by-side with a DM43S.

As for the PPP replacement label, I'm still with "K.PK". "A.PK" doesn't work for me as the word Assignment is too long...

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:44 pm
by Nigel (UK)
I've been using version 23 of the WP43C firmware on my physical DM42 extensively. Today I changed to version 25. I immediately noticed that the up- and down- arrow keys, which I was using to cycle through the various HOME menus, did not always register, missing about one press in five. Changing back-and-forth between the two versions has convinced me that this effect is probably real.

I've tried version 24, and the arrow keys work fine in that. Either my imagination is over-active (entirely possible!) or something has happened between versions 24 and 25.

One other issue: according to the WP43S manual, the ".d" function is supposed to change fraction display back to decimal. It does this correctly on the WP43S simulator (on which it is a keyboard function) but it doesn't seem to work with WP43C on my calculator. (Of course I may be misunderstanding what this function is supposed to do.)

On the topic of fractions: would anyone else like to be able to enter "2/3" by pressing "2..3", rather than "0.2.3" (as on the HP32sii, for example)? (I know Walter's answer to this!)

I agree with everyone else that inautilis has done a tremendous job on the artwork for the overlay.

Nigel (UK)

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm
by Jaymos
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
As for the "Y" and "N" being white, I picked up right away why as an English speaking native, just as Sylvain would have if the "O" and "N" were white, the "S" and "N" for Massimo, etc. Nice use of color tones, something not done often enough.
Interesting comment. I generally do not "iconise" everything to make it more international, and I try keep to the HP style of keywords, but, a solution not involving either, could be to highlight Y, O, S, J and N all four white, and add a line of code to accept Y, O, S & J as yes, and N as no.

Would that be too confusing? Or helpful?
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
Although I've followed this thread, I had not really planned on re-purposing a DM42 as a DM43C, but the collective refinement and cleverness that has gone into this, and now this beautiful overly, have convinced me to give it a go once the overlays are ready.

It will be interesting to see/use side-by-side with a DM43S.
👍 Great! A convertee ;-)

For those who do not follow this thread, I can mention that our first intention for the key overlay is a removable label, and we are considering various options, including an option from SwissMicros. My intention is not only to make my DM42 useful ( :o ) with an overlay, but to have the final iteration made as a calculator sold by SM. And there are a few more options considered by others on this group.
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
As for the PPP replacement label, I'm still with "K.PK". "A.PK" doesn't work for me as the word Assignment is too long...
Either way it is 1/0 better than my PPP attempt...
I am divided 50/50 on this one and would like some more nudging ...

To my mind we are on K.PK or A.PK.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:05 pm
by H2X
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
As for the "Y" and "N" being white, I picked up right away why as an English speaking native, just as Sylvain would have if the "O" and "N" were white, the "S" and "N" for Massimo, etc. Nice use of color tones, something not done often enough.
Interesting comment. I generally do not "iconise" everything to make it more international, and I try keep to the HP style of keywords, but, a solution not involving either, could be to highlight Y, O, S, J and N all four white, and add a line of code to accept Y, O, S & J as yes, and N as no.

Would that be too confusing? Or helpful?
The [ENTER] and [EXIT] keys, [ON] and [OFF] labels say it: English is the language.

I vote Y and N only, or none at all.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:28 pm
by Jaymos
Nigel (UK) wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:44 pm
I've been using version 23 of the WP43C firmware on my physical DM42 extensively.
My old 34C friend Nigel! Welcome!

It really made my day now hearing you use it extensively!
Nigel (UK) wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:44 pm
Today I changed to version 25. I immediately noticed that the up- and down- arrow keys, which I was using to cycle through the various HOME menus, did not always register, missing about one press in five. Changing back-and-forth between the two versions has convinced me that this effect is probably real.

I've tried version 24, and the arrow keys work fine in that. Either my imagination is over-active (entirely possible!) or something has happened between versions 24 and 25.
This is entirely possible - we have worked hard on the key processing. Interesting that you find the arrow keys problematic, because nothing were changed in the arrow key handling. A lot in the function keys, and timers and all that though.

Essential check, please make sure you have the latest DM42 software installed - the complete package which includes both DMCP and the Calculator firmware. Recently (I would have to check when exactly) we started using features from the latest Swissmicros firmware, which may cause such issues if you do not have the latest installed.

Let me know about the above, before I start on a bug hunt.

Nigel (UK) wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:44 pm
One other issue: according to the WP43S manual, the ".d" function is supposed to change fraction display back to decimal. It does this correctly on the WP43S simulator (on which it is a keyboard function) but it doesn't seem to work with WP43C on my calculator. (Of course I may be misunderstanding what this function is supposed to do.)
Ahhh. I think I understand. On the DM42 version without labels, all the labels are still there, including [.d]. Have a look in the document v48, p11.

The key in your sentence is when you said "on which it is a keyboard function" which leads me to believe you do not know that [.d] is a g function on LOG. See below, and check if it works. If I misunderstand, please detail more how it does it wrong.

It worked until recently when I checked. I just checked on the WP43C simulator and it does just that. Example:

Code: Select all

1.2.3 [ENTER] renders 1 2/3
[f] [f] [.d] renders 1.666667
and in reverse:

Code: Select all

[f] [f] [Σ+] renders 1 ⅔ 
I do not have my DM42 handy (it is at the printers fitting the key template) and will check soon, in a few days.
Nigel (UK) wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:44 pm
On the topic of fractions: would anyone else like to be able to enter "2/3" by pressing "2..3", rather than "0.2.3" (as on the HP32sii, for example)? (I know Walter's answer to this!)
I would like that, and I listed it on my todo list, I would like to have an option for that. But the list is rather full. But I do get to things on the list eventually.

Edit. Added second example.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:15 pm
by Jaymos
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:28 pm
Nigel (UK) wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:44 pm
Today I changed to version 25. I immediately noticed that the up- and down- arrow keys, which I was using to cycle through the various HOME menus, did not always register, missing about one press in five. Changing back-and-forth between the two versions has convinced me that this effect is probably real.

I've tried version 24, and the arrow keys work fine in that. Either my imagination is over-active (entirely possible!) or something has happened between versions 24 and 25.
This is entirely possible - we have worked hard on the key processing. Interesting that you find the arrow keys problematic, because nothing were changed in the arrow key handling. A lot in the function keys, and timers and all that though.

Essential check, please make sure you have the latest DM42 software installed - the complete package which includes both DMCP and the Calculator firmware. Recently (I would have to check when exactly) we started using features from the latest Swissmicros firmware, which may cause such issues if you do not have the latest installed.

Let me know about the above, before I start on a bug hunt.

Of course I could not wait. Bug hunt started anyway.

I did a compare on the sources for 24 and 25, and as suspected, no key mods. Also, both versions also refer to the same new version of DMCP, so no surprises there. Also no mods in the key handling code, and no mods in Dani's timer code between these dates. So a proper mystery.

The two versions that you refer to both are the SHOW demo versions, and SHOW does make additional use of the Up/DN keys to scroll around the stack - there is a possibility. There were minor SHOW operation mods in between.

I would like to make a clean comparison, to try eliminate the experimental SHOW portion, and quite a number of seemingly unrelated code added and changed in a week by me and the 43S team. Below is version 26 based on the latest software, with, and without SHOW. I would like you to report your DMCP software number, and then I would like to ask if you could run both versions and report on the findings.

43C_26L2_SHOW.pgm
43C_26L2.pgm

Best regards
Jaco

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:42 pm
by Nigel (UK)
My DMCP version is 3.15.

I tried both versions of version 26 and both behave in the same way. After playing for a while I can now be precise about what the problem is. If I press either arrow multiple times (say five) and then press the other arrow, the first press of the other arrow is ignored. This happens even if there is quite a long delay between presses. It is the same behaviour shown in version 25; it isn't present in version 24.

I hope this helps.

So far as ".d" is concerned, you are correct - g[LOG] works fine. The ".d" found in the menu reached by f[0] down-arrow down-arrow still doesn't have any visible effect: is it supposed to be the same command?

Thank you for your kind comments! Now that the key response is up to speed the physical WP43C is a pleasure to use. The WP43S has been adapted to the DM42 keyboard with imagination and flair - this thread is packed with good ideas.

Nigel (UK)

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:08 am
by Jaymos
Nigel (UK) wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:42 pm
My DMCP version is 3.15.

I tried both versions of version 26 and both behave in the same way. After playing for a while I can now be precise about what the problem is. If I press either arrow multiple times (say five) and then press the other arrow, the first press of the other arrow is ignored. This happens even if there is quite a long delay between presses. It is the same behaviour shown in version 25; it isn't present in version 24.

I hope this helps.
It does help thanx. A good report. I will do some bug chasing tonight.

So far as ".d" is concerned, you are correct - g[LOG] works fine. The ".d" found in the menu reached by f[0] down-arrow down-arrow still doesn't have any visible effect: is it supposed to be the same command?
It is meant to be the same. Even though the calling mechanism is vastly different for that particular function.

I have done a lot of changes since creating those shortcut menus, so it is entirely possible that this is a problem I caused myself by nit updating those menus. I will fix it soon. (Btw, the # and CC/COMPLEX functions also have the same mechanism which needs updating if keys change).


Thank you for your kind comments! Now that the key response is up to speed the physical WP43C is a pleasure to use. The WP43S has been adapted to the DM42 keyboard with imagination and flair - this thread is packed with good ideas.
Thank you!

Compliments to the team... have you managed to start compiling on your side... nudge nudge

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:07 am
by Dani R.
H2X wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:05 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm
rprosperi wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm
As for the "Y" and "N" being white, I picked up right away why as an English speaking native, just as Sylvain would have if the "O" and "N" were white, the "S" and "N" for Massimo, etc. Nice use of color tones, something not done often enough.
Interesting comment. I generally do not "iconise" everything to make it more international, and I try keep to the HP style of keywords, but, a solution not involving either, could be to highlight Y, O, S, J and N all four white, and add a line of code to accept Y, O, S & J as yes, and N as no.

Would that be too confusing? Or helpful?
The [ENTER] and [EXIT] keys, [ON] and [OFF] labels say it: English is the language.

I vote Y and N only, or none at all.
+1