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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:49 pm
by Walter
Just an observation: CLSTK shows up quite frequently in your menus. Actually, it's not required as often in RPN - usually, the stack purges itself.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:47 am
by Jaymos
It is also painted in white above the F6 key on the template, for use when all menus are gone. The stack does purge itself in a perfect world, but not after different operations, intermediates, previous answers, testing values and duplicates in case they would be needed. That leaves you to have to clean up the litter and hit 0. and ENTER 7 times, use 0. g STK g FILL (not on my keys), or use g STK CLSTK.

I want an easy way to make sure all 8 levels of the stack are cleared.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:36 am
by H2X
Jaymos, how is the long press concept agreeing with you so far?

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:14 am
by Jaymos
I like it a lot and it is my preference to reach f(FN). I do however not like the extended wait period to get to g(FN) and I often rather use double [f/g] to get to g(FN).

The double click method to get to g(FN) is still in progress and the difficulty here was the main reason for updating the DMCP recently.

The way the methods are simultaneously integrated works well. One uses whichever you want and they don’t interfere with one another. ([f/g], double [f/g], longpress and double click).

There are two versions of double click In progress at the moment. My version is a complete rewrite of my first and it still does not reliably hit g(FN) and sometimes gets FN instead. Dani very cleverly rewrote and changed my first version using the timing functionality of DMCP as his Proof of Concept. Currently his version works a lot better than mine. Dani also reported better timing response yesterday after updating the DMCP. I will likely import his PoC soon.

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am
by H2X
Double-click is of course an interesting and proven concept, albeit somewhat prone to misexecution, and not easily aborted in flight. Or undone after, which is equally true for both, but perhaps more relevant when abort is not possible.

What I was aiming for is this:

Since long pressing and double-clicking has been introduced, do you think they might be used more? In particular, do you think long press might apply to the clear key, to clear the stack?

NB: I am just brainstorming (or possibly -farting) at the moment. I have plenty of arguments against it myself, but it crossed my mind and I find it slightly intriguing...

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:13 pm
by Dani R.
H2X wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am
... In particular, do you think long press might apply to the clear key, to clear the stack?

Jaco introduced the not so time critical double click on CLR a long time ago and there it causes a DROP. This is harmonious in that the preceding CLR is complemented by the DROP.

The triple click on shift opens HOME. Thereby the status of f/g is rotated through. Here, too, any typing errors are not very annoying, since the status of f/g can be monitored at any time.

I wouldn't introduce double click on other keys than the function keys, because there must be a short timeout if you want to trigger the function which is on the single click and the double click functionality is activated.


Long press for CLSTK, this would give plenty of room in the HOME menus...

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm
by Jaymos
H2X, it is a valid point, and I think I will really like it.

The only negative point for this, is that the NOP will be gone on CLR as I would replace the existing NOP with CLSTK. I could arguably start another NOP timeout after CLSTK is reached...

I will implement a test soon (after importing the new timer based double click code).

Just to expand on Dani’s explanation, the reason that the double click already works for a long time on CLR, is that that short delay to differentiate whether the user intends the same function twice (i.e. CLX CLX), or wants the DROP by double tapping CLR, is not needed as the CLX operation is any way done: X is cleared. Then in addition, a DROP is done if you double tap. In H2X’s proposal, the CLX will be done and after that, longpress timeout, and CLSTK.

As he said: harmonious. DROP and CLSTK are logical stack extensions to add to CLR on the <- button. And it can disappear from 4 HOME menus. Mmm, maybe leave it on just one ;-)

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:54 am
by H2X
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm
... I think I will really like it.
Glad to hear that, Jaymos! :-)

I think of the double-click, triple-click, long-press behaviors that you have added as easter eggy or bonus features.

Those who don't want to use them need not - they can go happily about their usual, single-click, everything is as printed on the faceplate business. They should only need to be aware that extra modes of operation exist, so as to understand what has happened if they inadvertently go there. Perhaps the 43C, at some future time, should have a setting to disable them (catering for any Parkinson users...)

For the rest of us, the trick is to learn and remember all the extra behaviors. Ideally, it should prove super intuitive, so that once you get the hang of it it's all second nature. While getting the hang, a comprehensive list might prove useful.

Does such a list exist yet?

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:58 am
by Jaymos
I should make a list. Such list belongs in my doc.

I’ll flag it for inclusion.

J

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:37 am
by Jaymos
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:58 am
I should make a list. Such list belongs in my doc.

I’ll flag it for inclusion.

J
Section 17 on p15 of the last doc issued has some of it.

I think it needs a text table to list all the special cases.

J