43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:03 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:45 pm
I apologize for that. I had thought I'd post "nothing to say, I am verry happy". And I am happy, really. Then I made a printout in the same size as the DM42. Then I saw again what I don't like so much, but I could actually live with it very well. Menus on the cursor keys.

So... R.BR to [g] [CursorUp], B.BR to [g]CursorDown], VIEW to [f] [7], HOME to [g] [7], CNST to [f] [8].

This may well be added to the list of possible changes. But there may be more ideas about what was forgotten or what can be solved better.

No apology needed ;-)

I have come to learn that it is worth looking at your very logical ideas. There were a few times already in the last few days! :P

Let me print and I shall look carefully at your suggestions. I will respond.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:11 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:03 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:45 pm
I apologize for that. I had thought I'd post "nothing to say, I am verry happy". And I am happy, really. Then I made a printout in the same size as the DM42. Then I saw again what I don't like so much, but I could actually live with it very well. Menus on the cursor keys.

So... R.BR to [g] [CursorUp], B.BR to [g]CursorDown], VIEW to [f] [7], HOME to [g] [7], CNST to [f] [8].

This may well be added to the list of possible changes. But there may be more ideas about what was forgotten or what can be solved better.

No apology needed ;-)

I have come to learn that it is worth looking at your very logical ideas. There were a few times already in the last few days! :P

Let me print and I shall look carefully at your suggestions. I will respond.

Dani,

I thought about it and liked the concept.
I tried the suggestion in the emulator.
I immediately saw that the problem is that R.BR and B.BR are now both blue, and the lettering looks very confusing. Too confusing to identify easily which is which. It needs the yellow/blue. So I undid the change.

Picture showing what it looked like before I deleted it.
Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:11 pm
...

Dani,

I thought about it and liked the concept.
I tried the suggestion in the emulator.
I immediately saw that the problem is that R.BR and B.BR are now both blue, and the lettering looks very confusing. Too confusing to identify easily which is which. It needs the yellow/blue. So I undid the change.

Picture showing what it looked like before I deleted it.
Try and error, thanks for trying.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
Posts: 511
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:26 pm

I want to explain the concept of the HOME menu which I introduced.

1. When no other menus are needed, I want to make good use of the extra buttons that the DM42 hardware gives us. Otherwise these buttons are simply unmarked and unused.

The idea is to have this menu up, call another should it be needed, and press EXIT to return to this known state of HOME buttons.

2. When you bring up the HOME menu, you can currently scroll up and down to reach a total of 5 screens. This is not fixed. This is open for discussion.

3. When I scroll, I try to keep some points fixed, i.e. I duplicate some lines, and change only a few items or one line at a time. This creates the illusion of "fixed buttons" on the calculator, which is good for muscle memory.

4. Screens:
  1. The first screen duplicates some of the [f] shifted math on the top line. This allows for unshifted access to yˆx, xˆ2, 10ˆx.
  2. Added some hidden but handy functions on the primaries.
  3. Brings in a row of the math menus conveniently next to one another, as well as an unshifted COMPLEX entry key.
  4. Keep the top two rows and change the primaries to the display modes.
  5. Keep the top two rows and change the primaries to some admin menus.
As it stands now, I captured the 5 screens below, and tried to indicate the rationale.

5. Also refer to post 1 in this thread, where I quote myself:
A HOME menu was added to the menu system, activated with either a triple shift or by pressing the [g] [HOME] button. The HOME soft menu provides easy direct access to:
    • Extended math keys such as x!, parallel impedances, Euler’s e and also an unshifted pi for convenience on a primary key.
    • Shortcuts to math menus on [f]: [EXP] [CPX] [FIN] [TRI] [DRG] [FN.X]
    • Some direct access to settings such as DEG/RAD etc, and FIX, ENG, etc.
    • Admin menus on [g]: MENUS] [INFO] [CAT] [MODE] etc.
6. Of course none of this is required to operate the machine. This is an additional dimension of operation. Optional to use.

7. A few blocks are still open for other functions and menus.



Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:58 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:15 am

... CUST1 [g] [COS] and CUST2 [g] [TAN]. Unlike MyMenu, CUST1 and CUST2 would be called explicitly and behave like a normal menu, except, of course, that you can edit the entries yourself. This allows you to better group your way of working by activity. Or you have already created the space for future add-on modules that need their own menu.
Dani,

Could you please explain how this is different to the MyMenu and associated key assignments?
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:01 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:11 pm
I thought about it and liked the concept.
I tried the suggestion in the emulator.
I immediately saw that the problem is that R.BR and B.BR are now both blue, and the lettering looks very confusing. Too confusing to identify easily which is which. It needs the yellow/blue. So I undid the change.
Right now, I don't see any more movement. I would like CNST on [8], because then the menu would be closer to CONV and UNIT. But VIEW on a cursor key doesn't make any sense and would only solve half of the problem.

Renaming the two menus R.BR and B.BR might help, but I'm not sure that you'll find anything, because there are apparently no self-explanatory names for these functionalities yet.

The only way to save my last idea could be to create meaningful symbols for R.BR and B.BR. But I can't do that. So if someone is able to create symbols... Otherwise I see my last idea as buried.
DM42 SN:00032

Dani R.
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:07 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:58 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:15 am

... CUST1 [g] [COS] and CUST2 [g] [TAN]. Unlike MyMenu, CUST1 and CUST2 would be called explicitly and behave like a normal menu, except, of course, that you can edit the entries yourself. This allows you to better group your way of working by activity. Or you have already created the space for future add-on modules that need their own menu.
Dani,

Could you please explain how this is different to the MyMenu and associated key assignments?
Right now, I can't. First I will have to work through your explanations of your concept, with the help of DeepL and stuff. It is quite possible that your concept already covers my suggestion or is equivalent.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:22 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:01 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:11 pm
I thought about it and liked the concept.
I tried the suggestion in the emulator.
I immediately saw that the problem is that R.BR and B.BR are now both blue, and the lettering looks very confusing. Too confusing to identify easily which is which. It needs the yellow/blue. So I undid the change.
Right now, I don't see any more movement. I would like CNST on [8], because then the menu would be closer to CONV and UNIT. But VIEW on a cursor key doesn't make any sense and would only solve half of the problem.

Renaming the two menus R.BR and B.BR might help, but I'm not sure that you'll find anything, because there are apparently no self-explanatory names for these functionalities yet.

The only way to save my last idea could be to create meaningful symbols for R.BR and B.BR. But I can't do that. So if someone is able to create symbols... Otherwise I see my last idea as buried.
I agree. Names may make the two be sufficiently different could work.
The original names are RBR and STATUS. I dislike both.

Maybe R.BR (to stay close to WP43S) and B.STATE (to stay in pattern of ".").
I think there may be enough space for a long name of 7 letters.
I think with a short name on [g][Up] and a long name on [g][Dn] one could identify it easily.

Comments from others? H2X?
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Location: Norway

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:09 am

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:22 pm
I agree. Names may make the two be sufficiently different could work.
The original names are RBR and STATUS. I dislike both.
Me too. RBR is unintuitive, and STATUS could mean many things - often too many.
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:22 pm
Maybe R.BR (to stay close to WP43S) and B.STATE (to stay in pattern of ".").
I think there may be enough space for a long name of 7 letters.
I think with a short name on [g][Up] and a long name on [g][Dn] one could identify it easily.

Comments from others? H2X?
The only things the original names have going for them, are:
  • they are the original names
  • they have different length
Both of the above are strong arguments. I'd still like to consider better names, though.

REG.BR is better than, but still reminds of RBR for those who know the WP43S. Good enough?

With RBR growing longer, I'd love to cough up a shorter name for STATUS which cannot be confused with STAT. I struggle.

But if REG.BR, maybe STATUS can stay?
Last edited by H2X on Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:40 am

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:26 pm
I want to explain the concept of the HOME menu which I introduced.

1. When no other menus are needed, I want to make good use of the extra buttons that the DM42 hardware gives us. Otherwise these buttons are simply unmarked and unused.

The idea is to have this menu up, call another should it be needed, and press EXIT to return to this known state of HOME buttons.
Lovely!
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:26 pm
2. When you bring up the HOME menu, you can currently scroll up and down to reach a total of 5 screens. This is not fixed. This is open for discussion.
A well known concept, which should be easy to get used to. I assume it is also possible to "scroll around" the end pages?
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:26 pm
3. When I scroll, I try to keep some points fixed, i.e. I duplicate some lines, and change only a few items or one line at a time. This creates the illusion of "fixed buttons" on the calculator, which is good for muscle memory.
Good, I think! Let's see how this works in practice.

Whatever you decide to do later, I think that consistency is good, so if the same function or menu appears on different "pages", it should be on the same soft key, and I think preferrably also the same shift (f or g), as you say to aid muscle memory.

How many pages a particular item needs to be on, I don't know. Which is better - fewer changes (leading to more pages), or vice versa? Let's see.
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:26 pm
4. Screens:
5. Also refer to post 1 in this thread, where I quote myself:
Simmering...
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:26 pm
6. Of course none of this is required to operate the machine. This is an additional dimension of operation. Optional to use.
Some might embrace this fully, noone should be bothered by it, but maybe a global setting to enable this behaviour anyway?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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