43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:49 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:23 pm
StatsDoctor wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:06 pm
The development of the alternative key layout and all of the discussion about this is very interesting, and has been a lot of work for those directly involved with this. Is there any chance that SwissMicros would manufacture a 43S and a 43C, or would they (as a small company) be stretched too thin to do this? Did a discussion on this already take place, in which case I may have missed it?

Thanks,

Bob O.
Hi Bob,

I don't know the answer to this, maybe a question on the other "43 News" list would get you most answers.

J
I am very sure that the WP43S team had contact with SwissMicros and that SwissMicros is willing to make the changes to the entire keyboard layout when the project is ready. But I can imagine very well that this spinnoff has not been officially communicated back and forth yet.

If there was a real problem, grsbanks would have warned us a long time ago.

What are we talking about? A case and electronics that are pretty much identical for DM42, WP43S and WP43C. The keyboard of the DM42 and the WP43C is also identical. The display glass for the WP43S and the WP 43C could be considered identical if it were only labeled WP43. The labelled keyboard plate is of course three times different. I don't know if the Team WP43S and SwissMicros really talked in detail, but I'd assume that they've already discussed the production of a multi-color printed keyboard plate. I would have done this.

Of course SwissMicros wants to make a profit with their hardware. And they are urgently interested in selling a calculator with no HP rights. I can't imagine with the best will in the world that they don't have a hand to offer this alternative. In the worst case, and this is the great thing about this variant, you would have to somehow produce the multicolored printed keyboard plates, get an original DM42 and change the lettering. That's it. It wouldn't be WP43(S/P) on the glass, but DM42.

I think, from a certain point on, I will stand for election as ambassador of this variant. Cost me a local rate to call SwissMicros.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:55 am

Dani R. wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:49 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:23 pm
StatsDoctor wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:06 pm
The development of the alternative key layout and all of the discussion about this is very interesting, and has been a lot of work for those directly involved with this. Is there any chance that SwissMicros would manufacture a 43S and a 43C, or would they (as a small company) be stretched too thin to do this? Did a discussion on this already take place, in which case I may have missed it?

Thanks,

Bob O.
Hi Bob,

I don't know the answer to this, maybe a question on the other "43 News" list would get you most answers.

J
I am very sure that the WP43S team had contact with SwissMicros and that SwissMicros is willing to make the changes to the entire keyboard layout when the project is ready. But I can imagine very well that this spinnoff has not been officially communicated back and forth yet.

If there was a real problem, grsbanks would have warned us a long time ago.

What are we talking about? A case and electronics that are pretty much identical for DM42, WP43S and WP43C. The keyboard of the DM42 and the WP43C is also identical. The display glass for the WP43S and the WP 43C could be considered identical if it were only labeled WP43. The labelled keyboard plate is of course three times different. I don't know if the Team WP43S and SwissMicros really talked in detail, but I'd assume that they've already discussed the production of a multi-color printed keyboard plate. I would have done this.

Of course SwissMicros wants to make a profit with their hardware. And they are urgently interested in selling a calculator with no HP rights. I can't imagine with the best will in the world that they don't have a hand to offer this alternative. In the worst case, and this is the great thing about this variant, you would have to somehow produce the multicolored printed keyboard plates, get an original DM42 and change the lettering. That's it. It wouldn't be WP43(S/P) on the glass, but DM42.

I think, from a certain point on, I will stand for election as ambassador of this variant. Cost me a local rate to call SwissMicros.
+1
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:57 am

I really like it now, the last version with
  • The shifts from STK to [-]; CNST to [Up]; FIN to EEX.
  • Also toned down the shading a notch.
  • Also updated to the latest main project source, but that is behind the scenes.


Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

StatsDoctor
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by StatsDoctor » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:41 am

Hi Dani,

Thanks for your detailed, insightful, and very helpful response! You have answered all of my questions.

Your response really helps me (and perhaps others) to put things into perspective.

I will support SwissMicros in whichever version that they manufacture (if they only manufacture one version). However, if given a choice, I would select the 43C over the 43S. The 43C keyboard layout is more intuitive to me, especially given my familiarity with the DM 42/HP 42-S and the DM 15L/HP 15-C.

Thanks for all of your hard work and all of Jaco's hard work on this!

Best,

Bob O.
Bob O.
DM42, DM15L, WP-34S, HP-42S, HP 35s, HP-32S, HP-32Sii, HP-15C; iOS: Free42, WP-34S, HP-15C

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H2X
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Location: Norway

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:37 am

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:57 am
I really like it now, the last version with
  • The shifts from STK to [-]; CNST to [Up]; FIN to EEX.
  • Also toned down the shading a notch.
  • Also updated to the latest main project source, but that is behind the scenes.
Movements are OK, and the shaded labels look better.

But are you all agreeing that yellow print label belongs on the [EXIT] key?
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:21 am

H2X wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:37 am
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:57 am
I really like it now, the last version with
  • The shifts from STK to [-]; CNST to [Up]; FIN to EEX.
  • Also toned down the shading a notch.
  • Also updated to the latest main project source, but that is behind the scenes.
Movements are OK, and the shaded labels look better.

But are you all agreeing that yellow print label belongs on the [EXIT] key?
I have not considered it really. Took it from the main project where it is on a key with I/O. I had to split these two when shifting the operators right and CAT needed be right.

I/O menu has a full menu page of print related stuff. I assume [f] EXIT is the most commonly used print command, where the I/O menu sits on [g] [+] [Dn] where [g] is double tap shift.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:13 am

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:21 am
H2X wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:37 am
But are you all agreeing that yellow print label belongs on the [EXIT] key?
I have not considered it really. Took it from the main project where it is on a key with I/O. I had to split these two when shifting the operators right and CAT needed be right.

I/O menu has a full menu page of print related stuff. I assume [f] EXIT is the most commonly used print command, where the I/O menu sits on [g] [+] [Dn] where [g] is double tap shift.
I get that IF one were to use such operations, having the most frequently used ones readily available might be appreciated.

I propose considering it, but maybe the main project should do that for us. I'd like to understand how it will be useful. Printing to paper seems obsolete, but given the high precision this platform offers, being able write (certain values) to a file or copy to a clipboard seem valid.

Building on the main project's concept of [RCL] L as an alias for LAST x, I propose STO (something) as equally intuitive for "printing" or output operations, and RCL (something) for corresponding input operations.

I know I am addressing the wrong audience, but I'd like to learn what this audience thinks before bothering the right one.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:21 am

H2X wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:13 am
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:21 am
H2X wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:37 am
But are you all agreeing that yellow print label belongs on the [EXIT] key?
I have not considered it really. Took it from the main project where it is on a key with I/O. I had to split these two when shifting the operators right and CAT needed be right.

I/O menu has a full menu page of print related stuff. I assume [f] EXIT is the most commonly used print command, where the I/O menu sits on [g] [+] [Dn] where [g] is double tap shift.
I get that IF one were to use such operations, having the most frequently used ones readily available might be appreciated.

I propose considering it, but maybe the main project should do that for us. I'd like to understand how it will be useful. Printing to paper seems obsolete, but given the high precision this platform offers, being able write (certain values) to a file or copy to a clipboard seem valid.

Building on the main project's concept of [RCL] L as an alias for LAST x, I propose STO (something) as equally intuitive for "printing" or output operations, and RCL (something) for corresponding input operations.

I know I am addressing the wrong audience, but I'd like to learn what this audience thinks before bothering the right one.

I agree that a kind of print file is required.

My proposal is for you to first look at the OM and ReM re printing envisaged. Such details may well be thought of by the team, but not yet in the manuals.

I quickly looked on the pdf’s and found only the reference to PRINT X (the icon on [f] EXIT), and the set of various printing commands found in the I/O menu. It also refers to an option to print over a serial channel, which I assume to be over the USB.

In terms of the print icon on [f] EXIT, we could replace it with text “PRINT”, which is equivalent in position on the DM42 [f][-]. I prefer the location away from the operators i.e. on EXIT though. I think it deserves an isolated and easily accessible position.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:21 am
In terms of the print icon on [f] EXIT, we could replace it with text “PRINT”, which is equivalent in position on the DM42 [f][-]. I prefer the location away from the operators i.e. on EXIT though. I think it deserves an isolated and easily accessible position.
I assume by the existing label that what it's intended to do, is print the value of the x register. If this is correct, there is no need to replace it with the less evocative "PRINT".

My point was more if this feature was needed - or if the real estate could be put to better use.

I don't see myself needing it much, and when / if I do, I guess I'd be content to find it on the I/O menu.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

Dani R.
Posts: 291
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:45 pm

I apologize for that. I had thought I'd post "nothing to say, I am verry happy". And I am happy, really. Then I made a printout in the same size as the DM42. Then I saw again what I don't like so much, but I could actually live with it very well. Menus on the cursor keys.

So... R.BR to [g] [CursorUp], B.BR to [g]CursorDown], VIEW to [f] [7], HOME to [g] [7], CNST to [f] [8].

This may well be added to the list of possible changes. But there may be more ideas about what was forgotten or what can be solved better.
DM42 SN:00032

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