43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:41 am

Regarding the additional displays of BIN/OCT/DEC/HEX, I think the criterion is the status BASE mode, not the opened BASE menu, like the display in the status line is controlled. Whether it should be configurable or not, I have no fixed opinion on that. And if an exotic BASE is chosen, I am not sure which display from BIN/OCT/DEC/HEX should be omitted. BIN?
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:28 am

Dani R. wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:41 am
Regarding the additional displays of BIN/OCT/DEC/HEX, I think the criterion is the status BASE mode, not the opened BASE menu, like the display in the status line is controlled. Whether it should be configurable or not, I have no fixed opinion on that. And if an exotic BASE is chosen, I am not sure which display from BIN/OCT/DEC/HEX should be omitted. BIN?
Currently it works exactly like that: activated by BASE-mode and with a short integer in X. In my opinion it works well. I will make available a simulator and a DM42 image tonight. If Dani is available to compile.

I think the HEX, OCT, BIN should remain fixed, with only bottom X changing for any base, including exotic bases.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:18 pm

agree on only the bottom value (i.e. below the bar) should change.
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:21 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:06 am
It was with difficulty that I propogated the 1 to 64 error in instead of implementing 0 to 63 in the menu. The original FB command works with 1-64. But if I get a nudge I’ll change it to 0-63. I don’t like 1-64.

I think our best option is to simply change the menu to FB00 through FB63 as it is a menu which clearly and visibly starts at 0; and leave the 43S FB command as is and follow the 43S manual for the standard command.

Having said that, we should at the same time request from the 43S team to revise the manual and WP43S code to index bits for all bit commands 0-63. There is a tendency of 43S to follow the 16C, so maybe, it could change.
(I almost don't dare to ask): make it user-configurable. Personally I would use 0, but once in a blue moon 1.
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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RAPo
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Location: The Netherlands
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:46 pm

as for your request:
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:26 pm
The more input and ideas I get the better I can tweak the UI. So your ideas are appreciated.
could we have one-press buttons for changing wordsize and signed/unsigned, ie a row:
s08 s16 s32 s64
u08 u16 u32 u64?

I got this idea from the calctastic app that also has a nice bottom line showing the bits 31 ... 16 ... 0, see screenshot below.
I'll know it is a far degression from the original, but it is super handy.
Image
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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Walter
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Walter » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:54 pm

RAPo wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:21 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:06 am
It was with difficulty that I propogated the 1 to 64 error in instead of implementing 0 to 63 in the menu. The original FB command works with 1-64. But if I get a nudge I’ll change it to 0-63. I don’t like 1-64.

I think our best option is to simply change the menu to FB00 through FB63 as it is a menu which clearly and visibly starts at 0; and leave the 43S FB command as is and follow the 43S manual for the standard command.

Having said that, we should at the same time request from the 43S team to revise the manual and WP43S code to index bits for all bit commands 0-63. There is a tendency of 43S to follow the 16C, so maybe, it could change.
(I almost don't dare to ask): make it user-configurable. Personally I would use 0, but once in a blue moon 1.
Most people start counting with 1.
Hope this helps deciding.
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

dlachieze
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 10:20 am
Location: France

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by dlachieze » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:21 pm

Walter wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:54 pm
RAPo wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:21 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:06 am
It was with difficulty that I propogated the 1 to 64 error in instead of implementing 0 to 63 in the menu. The original FB command works with 1-64. But if I get a nudge I’ll change it to 0-63. I don’t like 1-64.

I think our best option is to simply change the menu to FB00 through FB63 as it is a menu which clearly and visibly starts at 0; and leave the 43S FB command as is and follow the 43S manual for the standard command.

Having said that, we should at the same time request from the 43S team to revise the manual and WP43S code to index bits for all bit commands 0-63. There is a tendency of 43S to follow the 16C, so maybe, it could change.
(I almost don't dare to ask): make it user-configurable. Personally I would use 0, but once in a blue moon 1.
Most people start counting with 1.
Hope this helps deciding.
The usual convention is to start bit numbering at 0, this has the advantage of matching the bit number with the power of 2 it represents.

And btw, on the WP 43S the registers and flags numbering starts at 0.
Last edited by dlachieze on Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:22 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:28 am
... If Dani is available to compile...
I should be here at irregular intervals. Best is an e-mail when everything is ready.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
Posts: 607
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:27 pm

RAPo wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:46 pm
as for your request:
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:26 pm
The more input and ideas I get the better I can tweak the UI. So your ideas are appreciated.
could we have one-press buttons for changing wordsize and signed/unsigned, ie a row:
s08 s16 s32 s64
u08 u16 u32 u64?

I got this idea from the calctastic app that also has a nice bottom line showing the bits 31 ... 16 ... 0, see screenshot below.
I'll know it is a far degression from the original, but it is super handy.
The BASE first menu is complete as is. But I am willing to make a POC for you on a menu, one menu Dn from BASE.

I suggest that you propose a full menu layout of 3 x 6 soft buttons including those and possible other suitable functions to make up the 18. Capital letters and numbers and special chars are allowed. Look in the font browser for the standard font. 7 characters max. Empty softkeys are no problem. Let’s discuss you menu layout and we can try it.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:23 pm

something like:

S06 | S08 | S16 | S32 | S64 | FB
U06 | U08| U16| U32 |U64 | FW
third line:
if in hexmode:
A | B | C | D | E | F
else
SL | SR | RL | RR | RLn | RRn (i.e toprow of a HP16C

Snn = switch to signed mode, wordlength=nn
Unn= switch to unsigned mode, wordlength=nn
FB = flip bytes FW = Flip words (ie AABBCCDD FB -> DDCC BBAA 000 000 and AABBCCDD FW -> CCDD AABB 0000 0000)
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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