43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:04 pm

RAPo wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:49 pm
fllipping bits is a great addition!
as for displaying representations when in mode 2:
a) why in stackd=2, couldn't it be better a systemwide setting: showfullbaseprec=Yes or no?
b) if find the layout confusing. beneath the bar you see two values if I lookup i see two values, but they are not the representations from the values below the bar. I'll know they are indexed by X: in the screen but is doesn't feel good. Would be better to mirror the values beneath the bar in a specific base-n notation above the bar. We have now n=10,n=2,n=16 but where is my beloved n=8?
Firstly, I have to use STACKD as it is a hack to the system. Otherwise I have to change too many very complex things.
Secondly, I do not see it as a problem to have a setting of say #BASEDSP which auto-sets the STACKD.

Now, reading what you said,

You mention you need Octal. And you mention the screen is confusing. I can fix both at the same time by removing the Y stack level display:

What about I change to display X only (STACKD=1), with a line above it, and then all three of HEX, OCT, and BIN displayed above the line?
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:07 pm

that would indeed be nice solutions for both additions!
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM41X: SN00496.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM42:SN06020.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

rprosperi
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Location: New York

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by rprosperi » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:22 pm

The flip-bits keys are a definite improvement. In the standard approach, there are so many key presses, mistakes are inevitable. What about another key to flip ALL bits? I've seen 2 situations that needed this in the last week alone, so it seems common enough to warrant it. Maybe this is already available in the 43S and I'm just not familiar enough, but if so, it seems having it available on this screen makes sense too.

For the BASE mode display, how will it handle much larger numbers, where more than 1 line of digits is needed?

I agree somewhat with RAPo, the 2 items listed above could be confusing relative to the 2 items below, however (food for thought) what about using this with only X being displayed below the line, allowing 'above the line' display space to show X in 3 other bases? So, you could see X (in DEC) also in BIN, HEX and OCT at the same time? Definitely inventing new stuff here, but to your early point, why not use the large LCD to do things not previously available. Sorry to drift from your suggestion.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071, DM10L: 071/100

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:50 pm

rprosperi wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:22 pm
The flip-bits keys are a definite improvement. In the standard approach, there are so many key presses, mistakes are inevitable. What about another key to flip ALL bits? I've seen 2 situations that needed this in the last week alone, so it seems common enough to warrant it.
This is NOT, and in the BITS menu, but for good measure there are plenty open boxes in my flip bit button menus and I added it. See below.
.
Clipboard24.png
Clipboard24.png (3.17 KiB) Viewed 255 times

For the BASE mode display, how will it handle much larger numbers, where more than 1 line of digits is needed?
Short integers are limited to 64 bits, of 8 HEX pairs. So more than one line is not needed.
.
Clipboard23.png
Clipboard23.png (4.11 KiB) Viewed 255 times

...So, you could see X (in DEC) also in BIN, HEX and OCT at the same time?
Done.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:13 pm

wow thank you.
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM41X: SN00496.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM42:SN06020.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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Jaymos
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:26 pm

It is all Proof of Concept, until it is stable and useful and becomes part of the C43. This one seems to want to stick.

The more input and ideas I get the better I can tweak the UI. So your ideas are appreciated.

I now need to figure out when and how to activate this display not to interfere with normal behaviour, REGS.V, SHOW, etc. But that will come ...

It was also ideas on this forum that came up with numerous small things added, like the POC of the double f/g press which enabled this whole project to hug the 42S lines closer, and I think about the large digit display of SHOW and the large digit display of long integers, and the amazing long presses for 2nd function, and and and. I think improved legibility is a common factor here, and I am always keen to improve legibility. And of course increase practical usability.

;-)
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

rprosperi
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Location: New York

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by rprosperi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:15 am

Like RAPo said: Wow!

And thank you!

Just wishing aloud and it comes true is wonderful. I'm thinking of wishing someone would come and clean my garage... :D

Thanks for keeping an open mind and continually inviting, and implementing, lots of new ideas. It's very encouraging for us casual readers...
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071, DM10L: 071/100

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:42 am

I know, it probably does not belong here, because the functionality comes from the WP43S. I assume that the significant bit ("Stellenwert") starts with 0, but not with 1. On my HP 16C I have to execute SB and CB on the position '0', which on the C43/WP43S now corresponds to the position '1'.


The "original" FB function could possibly be placed in the additional menu. (In the HEX mode you could imagine a moving cursor, with which you scroll through the NIBBLES, from back to front, to flip the desired BIT with a selection 0..3 in the corresponding NIBBLE. If we can express wishes.)
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:06 pm

It was with difficulty that I propogated the 1 to 64 error in instead of implementing 0 to 63 in the menu. The original FB command works with 1-64. But if I get a nudge I’ll change it to 0-63. I don’t like 1-64.

I think our best option is to simply change the menu to FB00 through FB63 as it is a menu which clearly and visibly starts at 0; and leave the 43S FB command as is and follow the 43S manual for the standard command.

Having said that, we should at the same time request from the 43S team to revise the manual and WP43S code to index bits for all bit commands 0-63. There is a tendency of 43S to follow the 16C, so maybe, it could change.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Dani R.
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:15 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:06 pm
... we should at the same time request from the 43S team to revise ...
The WP43S team has already read this note about the difference between HP 16C and WP43S. I'm just saying, the HP 42S also starts with BIT 0.




EDIT: Now the whole team
Last edited by Dani R. on Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DM42 SN:00032

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