43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sun May 10, 2020 3:29 am

Great idea but I don't like the fixed filename. Could their be something like: if I specify a flle name like XXX we can save/load the state of the Calc, including the menu structure. And offcourse selecting the menu file by picking from a filebrowser like it is done on the HP41X?
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sun May 10, 2020 9:48 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am
Haakon, more or less what you had in mind?
More or less!

I was also thinking about the extra menus for the g-shift labels, since different users might prefer one and not need the other. Or neither, once memory or a proper faceplate makes them obsolete - or if they prefer their own setup to anything we can conceive at this point.

Possibly also for topic specific menus. I know your topic is electrical engineering, but wouldn't it be nice to let people with different backgrounds decorate their own homes accordingly? The ability to remove irrelevant stuff might be as welcome as that to add relevant ditto.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sun May 10, 2020 9:59 am

RAPo wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:29 am
Great idea but I don't like the fixed filename. Could their be something like: if I specify a flle name like XXX we can save/load the state of the Calc, including the menu structure. And offcourse selecting the menu file by picking from a filebrowser like it is done on the HP41X?
I think the ability to choose from different files would be nice.

Maybe even to make multiple choices - that way you could have one or more setups for your mathematical topic(s) in additon to the "training wheels" (g-shift helper menus) of your liking loaded at the same time. Combining smaller files to achieve your desired result seems more convenient than managing larger files containing the entire setup, although I'm sure interesting cases could be made for / against either.
Last edited by H2X on Sun May 10, 2020 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun May 10, 2020 10:00 am

RAPo wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:29 am
Great idea but I don't like the fixed filename. Could their be something like: if I specify a flle name like XXX we can save/load the state of the Calc, including the menu structure. And offcourse selecting the menu file by picking from a filebrowser like it is done on the HP41X?
Great idea
Thanks.

43S MyMenu will have user defined softmenu buttons, and will store all of that within the 43S memory storage system. MyMenu will likely be integrated with amongst others the global label system in the 43S, which afaics is not text file based.

The point of XEQMENU.TSV is to have one user menu with the ability to be maintained on pc using text files. If it works well, I could look at the three fixed screens of the HOME menu too.
I don't like the fixed filename
I see your point of needing multiple file names for this file, i.e. to select from the flash drive which version of the menu you want to load.

I do not want to include in-calculator edits, file name changes, and stuff like that. It is meant to be pc maintained, so the copying and editing etc. is on pc. I agree selecting from multiple files in calc is good.
save/load the state of the Calc
This is something completely different from the idea under discussion. LOAD and SAVE are already defined in the 43S (therefore also the 43C), so all "user data" will be saved to flash memory. The ReM and OM neither refers to:

1. any other purpose for LOAD/SAVE than backing your data up against RAM loss (battery etc.)
2. any details of the FM (flash memory) usage for the backups
3. any file selection or directories, etc.

The details of the backing up are not discussed in the manuals, i.e. whether the user data (or state file of a kind) will be accessible to back up off calculator. There is no reference to 'file' or 'directory' etc., so we do not know if it is intended to be saved in a file or in another way on the flash memory. That may well still mean Martin could code that requirement in the file system on the flash drive. It doesn't make sense to pre-empt this information. I can evaluate only once it either appears in the manuals, or in the code. We'll see in due time.
selecting the file by a filebrowser
There is a file browser provided in the DMCP backbone. When I start with the coding of the text file reading, I will try use this file_selection_screen. It probably operates and looks like the file selection method in the DM42 when you select the PGM file for the 43C.
like it is done on the HP41X?
I am sorry, I do not know how it is done on the 41 series. I missed that generation completely, i.e. I have worked on the older ones and the newer ones but not the 41 series.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun May 10, 2020 10:02 am

H2X wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:59 am
RAPo wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:29 am
Great idea but I don't like the fixed filename. Could their be something like: if I specify a flle name like XXX we can save/load the state of the Calc, including the menu structure. And offcourse selecting the menu file by picking from a filebrowser like it is done on the HP41X?
I think the ability to choose from different files would be nice.

Maybe even to make multiple choices - that way you could have one or more setups for your mathematical topic(s) in additon to the "training wheels" (g-shift helper menus) of your liking loaded at the same time. Combining smaller files to achieve your desired result seems more convenient than managing larger files containing the entire setup, although I'm sure interesting cases could be made for / against either.
This makes sense.
The addition of the DMCP file selector when loading this menu will sort that out.

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

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RAPo
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RAPo » Sun May 10, 2020 10:09 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:00 am
like it is done on the HP41X?
I am sorry, I do not know how it is done on the 41 series. I missed that generation completely, i.e. I have worked on the older ones and the newer ones but not the 41 series.
The manual is online https://www.swissmicros.com/dm41x/doc/d ... /#cst_menu. See par. 3.2.1
DM41X beta: SN00018.
DM42 beta: SN00074.
DM10L: SN056/100.
DM11L: SN 02058.
DM15L: SN2074.
DM16L: SN2156.
DM15, DM16, DM41
and a whole bunch of the original HP's,

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Sun May 10, 2020 10:11 am

H2X wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:48 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am
Haakon, more or less what you had in mind?
More or less!

I was also thinking about the extra menus for the g-shift labels, since different users might prefer one and not need the other. Or neither, once memory or a proper faceplate makes them obsolete - or if they prefer their own setup to anything we can conceive at this point.
The training wheels menus are now automatically built according to actual keys. So I do not want to change those. They have they selection buttons where you can switch on or off the training wheels. And as you say, once you have the faceplate they will not be used.


Possibly also for topic specific menus. I know your topic is electrical engineering, but wouldn't it be nice to let people with different backgrounds decorate their own homes accordingly? The ability to remove irrelevant stuff might be as welcome as that to add relevant ditto.
You are right. Different files will work well for this.

I'll do implementation of this and let's see if it is practical to make the three fixed screens of HOME also as a text file.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Nazar
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Nazar » Sun May 10, 2020 10:17 am

It sucks that every RPN calculator has an ENTER key on the left side of the calculator. This makes it hard for me(a lefty) to write and use the calculator at the same time.
HP-28s, HP-28C, HP-35s, DM-42, Casio fx-570EX

dlachieze
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by dlachieze » Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 am

Nazar wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:17 am
It sucks that every RPN calculator has an ENTER key on the left side of the calculator. This makes it hard for me(a lefty) to write and use the calculator at the same time.
I'm not a lefty so my question may seem naive: is it harder to use the Enter key on the left side than any of the keys above or below Enter (such as the operator keys on the 41 and RPN calculators before)?
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066

Nazar
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Nazar » Sun May 10, 2020 11:26 am

The enter key is easier to use due to its size so it is more "reachable" if the operator keys are on the left. For right handed operation the original dm42 layout is easier at least for basic calculations but then again i wish there could be a model with the enter key on the right.
HP-28s, HP-28C, HP-35s, DM-42, Casio fx-570EX

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