43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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dlachieze
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:20 pm
Location: France

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by dlachieze »

I've loaded the C43L42_103 on my DM42 and while browsing the catalog of menus I've got an error message with the calculator frozen. I had to press reset at the back of the DM42 to recover as pressing EXIT as indicated on the screen didn't work.

How to reproduce:
  • starting with a freshly loaded C43L42_103 program under DMCP 3.20
  • press Shift CATALOG
  • press MENUS (rightmost top key)
  • press Shift Up several times to browse the catalog of menus
  • at what seems to be the end of the menus catalog you'll get the following error message :
    Image
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

Thank you for the comments on the menu positions.

I am ALWAYS looking for practical feedback. Sometimes we place items to be logical, but not necessarily practical.
> To throw in my bit on the UI, it is ingenious for the most part. I like the home menu with single press x^2 and y^x.
Agree

> The long press for g shifted commands is almost better than the second blue button, once you are used to it.
Fully agree. I like it a lot.
> I also like the complex menu, but miss having a single press CC button, as on the WP43s.... I would happily exchange the position of the CC and conj buttons.
That is a very sensible suggestion. I think this is example of how I logically spaced it, but not practically. I implemented it - seems more ergonomic, see below:
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CPX
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> The HP35s may have rubbish complex support, but I have always liked the i key for easy complex number entry.
I have implemented the i key long ago, but when I checked it now, it stopped working due to 43S arrangements. I fixed it quickly.
Currently, it is hidden in the CAT'DIGITS menu, the i on the side works like 35s 'i' in NIM. (do not confuse with the "i" in the HOME menu which of course is the i, the noun, not the verb ;-).)

I never pushed this, as it is really just the NIM version of CC, but did it just a experiment. I think this feature should disappear or be unadvertised.

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DIGITS
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> The sig display mode is also great- something that I have always missed on calculators!
Great - I love it. There is little feedback on that feature. It was one of the first I added after seeing it on Nigel's implementation on the WP34S.

> OK, I missed the layout with CC at the top left. That works too.
Yes there is a USER layout. But I prefer labelled key. Really do not like unlabelled things.
So I changed the CPX menu any way because it is an excellent suggestion. That one still works no prob.
> ... then the sigma + and sigma - keys in the stat menu will need to be swapped?
I do not want to do that; not yet. Yes, if there is more pressure, I can change it around ... let's see.
> Having shifted CC on the home menu is OK, but but my personal preference would be to swap CC with x!
Also a great idea. I think x! is used once in a long while - most people do not use it for serious business - only to demo large numbers. Maybe they forget how easy to do f[pi] [10^x] [10^x], all using long presses, no shift.... So I am happy to shift it around. Personally, I use x! more than CC, simply because I really dislike CC cause of the frequent miss-pressing thinking it is COMPLEX from HP42S.
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HOME
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Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
Posts: 701
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

dlachieze wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:35 pm
I've loaded the C43L42_103 on my DM42 and while browsing the catalog of menus I've got an error message with the calculator frozen. I had to press reset at the back of the DM42 to recover as pressing EXIT as indicated on the screen didn't work.

How to reproduce:
  • starting with a freshly loaded C43L42_103 program under DMCP 3.20
  • press Shift CATALOG
  • press MENUS (rightmost top key)
  • press Shift Up several times to browse the catalog of menus
  • at what seems to be the end of the menus catalog you'll get the following error message :
    Image
Thank you for the complete report. That always helps. I will investigate.
The catalog and mode operations recently changed a lot in the underlying 43S code, and I have not ironed out all the corner cases which appeared due to C43's significantly different operation. I will fix it - but it is part of a few difficult bugs to find, so let us say as soon as possible, no sooner ;-)
Thanx
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:01 pm
pica wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:46 am
...

OK, I missed the layout with CC at the top left. That works too. Then there is no need for it in any menu, but then the sigma + and sigma - keys in the stat menu will need to be swapped?
I agree with this.
Please be specific as to which part of the sentence your agreement is.
1. Missing CC?
2. That it works.
3. No need for a menu change?
4. Sigma keys swapping?

:ugeek: :mrgreen: :roll:
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Dani R.
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. »

Oops, that was very abbreviated.
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:57 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:01 pm
pica wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:46 am
...

OK, I missed the layout with CC at the top left. That works too. Then there is no need for it in any menu, but then the sigma + and sigma - keys in the stat menu will need to be swapped?
I agree with this.
Please be specific as to which part of the sentence your agreement is.
1. Missing CC?
2. That it works.
3. No need for a menu change?
4. Sigma keys swapping?

:ugeek: :mrgreen: :roll:
pica wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:46 am
sigma + and sigma - keys in the stat menu will need to be swapped
DM42 SN:00032
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Jaymos
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:14 pm
sigma + and sigma - keys in the stat menu will need to be swapped
I am willing to discuss that.

1. The purpose of the Σ- on the bottom is clear, as we already have Σ+ just below it.

2. However, Σ- must certainly be the exception to press, and if you do need, you can certainly press shift.

3. Also, swapping them will mean two Σ+'s directly above/below each other.

4. Σ+ on FN1 will allow better usage of the normal mode and user mode top right key. (Ed. I really meant LEFT).

I think (4) trumps everything. (Didn't like using that word). If the feeling is to rather be sure you have a convenient Σ+ available even if there are two, then I will change it.

Any other commenters?
Last edited by Jaymos on Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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pica
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:36 am
Location: Eswatini

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by pica »

Yes there is a USER layout. But I prefer labelled key. Really do not like unlabelled things.
So I changed the CPX menu any way because it is an excellent suggestion. That one still works no prob.
I agree with leaving sigma + where it is, since the key is labelled and I'm used to finding it there, and also leaving the stat menu intact. I mentioned it more because I just discovered that you were trying it out and IF sigma + went, the stat menu might need to change.

So we are right on the same page. :)
Have owned HP10C HP32SII.
Currently use HP50G Free42 DM42.
Testing WP43S, C43.
Dani R.
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. »

We have introduced that the key Σ+ can be assigned with another function, even if USER is not activated. Currently this is PRGM, USER, HOME, Σ+, ALPHA, CC, G SH or MYM. So it is legitimate that users start using this functionality. From there, it is no longer possible to assume that the Σ+ key is assigned with Σ+.

Having Σ+ on F1 in the STAT menu does not interfere further, even if some users still have the Σ+ key assigned to Σ+.
DM42 SN:00032
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pica
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by pica »

adambennett wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:54 pm
I successfully compile/run the C43 simulator on linux.
As a Linux user, I will appreciate a bit of direction on how you did this.
Have owned HP10C HP32SII.
Currently use HP50G Free42 DM42.
Testing WP43S, C43.
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Jaymos
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:35 pm
We have introduced that the key Σ+ can be assigned with another function, even if USER is not activated. Currently this is PRGM, USER, HOME, Σ+, ALPHA, CC, G SH or MYM. So it is legitimate that users start using this functionality. From there, it is no longer possible to assume that the Σ+ key is assigned with Σ+.

Having Σ+ on F1 in the STAT menu does not interfere further, even if some users still have the Σ+ key assigned to Σ+.
Consider it done ;-)
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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