WP43 Alternative key layout --> C43

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:57 am
The UNIT mode is also interesting, where you can input e.g. 1.23 x 10^3 and the calculator will display 1.230 k

(for UNIT 3)

This works from f (10^-15) to T (10^12), so f..p..n..mu..m..k..M..G..T
In conjunction with this, you can use the SI multipliers, see HOME Dn.
Menu_ 109 342.bmp
Menu_ 109 342.bmp (3.63 KiB) Viewed 1210 times
.
It works like this: 1.23 [.k] means 1.23 multiplied by 1000, and in UNIT 3 display mode it is shown as 1.230 k
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:14 pm
An annunciator for SIG mode might be wise, if at all possible, to facilitate correct interpretation of results (significant digits may be unfamiliar to some unsuspecting users, perhaps).
Only if screen space in the status line is available. Maybe to the right of /9999x, there might be space (when BASE is not in use) but I doubt three full alpha letters will have space. I would need to confirm if the apparent blank space which is already use for the BASE menu, is needed for something else (by WP43S) while using Real numbers.

We also need to ask the question that if SIG is shown, whether ALL, UNT, FIX, SCI & ENG would be needed as FIX, ALL and UNIT will also show powers of 10 notation if out of range, which can be confusing as to which mode is set.

Alternatively, we can leave it, so that if in doubt you check with f[MODE] which mode is active. That is already added as subscripts in the menu, where 43S does not have an easy way to see both mode and number of digit settings.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:28 pm
RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:57 am
The UNIT mode is also interesting, where you can input e.g. 1.23 x 10^3 and the calculator will display 1.230 k

(for UNIT 3)

This works from f (10^-15) to T (10^12), so f..p..n..mu..m..k..M..G..T
In conjunction with this, you can use the SI multipliers, see HOME Dn.

Menu_ 109 342.bmp
.
It works like this: 1.23 [.k] means 1.23 multiplied by 1000, and in UNIT 3 display mode it is shown as 1.230 k
Of course if you press 1.23 and [.k] 3 times, the display will show 1.230 x 10^9 if in ENG 3, or 1.230 G if in UNIT 3. It simply is a multiplier, and as such of course will work backwards as well 1.23 [.k] [.k] [.µ] will result in 1.230.

The UNIT display mode control was recently added in the f[F2] slot on this menu as I had an open space there. I do not particularly feel the need for it there, as I prefer it in the DISP menu. But it is there if needed or until a better candidate for that slot in the menu comes along.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:45 pm
We also need to ask the question that if SIG is shown, whether ALL, UNT, FIX, SCI & ENG would be needed as FIX, ALL and UNIT will also show powers of 10 notation if out of range, which can be confusing as to which mode is set.

Alternatively, we can leave it, so that if in doubt you check with f[MODE] which mode is active. That is already added as subscripts in the menu, where 43S does not have an easy way to see both mode and number of digit settings.
I could live with leaving it; although the usefulness of some annunciators like the fractions info or even the date/time is not really obvious to me; but we don't want to overhaul everything, I think.
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
redglyph
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by redglyph »

RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:57 am
The UNIT mode is also interesting, where you can input e.g. 1.23 x 10^3 and the calculator will display 1.230 k

(for UNIT 3)

This works from f (10^-15) to T (10^12), so f..p..n..mu..m..k..M..G..T
Oh, nice, so it's a labelled ENG mode, it must feel more natural for us engineers. :)
RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:14 pm
An annunciator for SIG mode might be wise, if at all possible, to facilitate correct interpretation of results (significant digits may be unfamiliar to some unsuspecting users, perhaps).
It would only make sense if we had it for FIX and possibly other modes, for the sake of consistency.
For example, how does the user know whether 0.05 is 0.05 in ALL or 0.046 in FIX 2?

This is visible with the DISP menu (at least on the WP43C) though it's less convenient than an annunciator. I don't know if this information is available elsewhere, or from a program.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

redglyph wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:19 pm
RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:57 am
The UNIT mode is also interesting, where you can input e.g. 1.23 x 10^3 and the calculator will display 1.230 k

(for UNIT 3)

This works from f (10^-15) to T (10^12), so f..p..n..mu..m..k..M..G..T
Oh, nice, so it's a labelled ENG mode, it must feel more natural for us engineers. :)
Yip
RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:14 pm
An annunciator for SIG mode might be wise, if at all possible, to facilitate correct interpretation of results (significant digits may be unfamiliar to some unsuspecting users, perhaps).
It would only make sense if we had it for FIX and possibly other modes, for the sake of consistency.
For example, how does the user know whether 0.05 is 0.05 in ALL or 0.046 in FIX 2?

This is visible with the DISP menu (at least on the WP43C) though it's less convenient than an annunciator. I don't know if this information is available elsewhere, or from a program.
It is not available as flags on the 43 platform; all the system flags have names and are available as the System flags, and the display mode is not there. See ReM p96 or see the WP43S style FF SYS.FL (which also works on C43 - but C43 has a link via MODE.CFG to get to FF SYS.FL).

The exceptions to this list are the C43 specific options (in MODE) and do not share the same flag setting system. I may still change that but there is no rush for that.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
redglyph
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by redglyph »

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:54 pm
It is not available as flags on the 43 platform; all the system flags have names and are available as the System flags, and the display mode is not there. See ReM p96 or see the WP43S style FF SYS.FL (which also works on C43 - but C43 has a link via MODE.CFG to get to FF SYS.FL).

The exceptions to this list are the C43 specific options (in MODE) and do not share the same flag setting system. I may still change that but there is no rush for that.
That's what I thought, I looked at those system flags and elsewhere but I wasn't entirely sure. I was just curious, I don't think it's important. Unless someone wants to change it in a program and restore the mode later, but that's a pretty remote use-case.

Seeing these settings in the menu is a nice touch. :)
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

A minor inconsistency in the interface I noticed: when entering alpha input, after switching the calculator (hardware) off and then on again, you can resume input; this is not the case for numeric input (I tried this because of the article "HP RPN Evolves" by Richard Nelson, who mentioned that the HP-35 (!) allowed to resume numeric input after switching it off & on. Unfortunately, I could not verify it on my 35, it did not power on just now :-(
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

Scrolling in the alpha menu for greek characters does not cycle through all available characters on my hardware (latest firmware). Eg, I cannot reach lowercase rho (regular), sigma etcetera. I can imagine this has to do with the jumping menu bug, although plugging in the calculator does not change the behaviour in this case.
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

RJvM wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:05 pm
Scrolling in the alpha menu for greek characters does not cycle through all available characters on my hardware (latest firmware). Eg, I cannot reach lowercase rho (regular), sigma etcetera. I can imagine this has to do with the jumping menu bug, although plugging in the calculator does not change the behaviour in this case.
This is fixed - will come in next release
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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