WP43 Alternative key layout --> C43

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

rudi wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:01 pm
What is the motivation for making the 43S?
And who are the target users?
Motivation: I think each developer for himself: I am making it because I want it for myself. I don't like the 43S arithmetic layout and I also don't like the simplistic original 42S layout. Developed by capable people in their off time in-between real projects over many years - each contributor has different reasons but maybe similar driving forces.

Target users: I like to see them as fellow enthusiasts making noise on this list.
rudi wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:01 pm
Personally I will only buy a “scientific calculator” that can be used as a handy calculator on my desk at work. With this I mean a calculator with arithmetic functions easily available, left or right, really doesn’t matter (I had a HP41 for ages) and perhaps most important, the math functions and their inverse available on primary keys, logarithmic- and trigometric- functions. I really love all the solving, integrating and graphing functionality, but if the device can’t be used for fast basic scientific/engineering calculations, I know it will just be a dust collector on my desk.
True. Fact of life!
I promised myself to stop buying these things and get this last one done ;-) Famous last words...
rudi wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:01 pm
Perhaps it could be an idea to make two versions with different key layout? I know that wouldn’t reduce the price, but perhaps it will increase the total sales of devices?
Well, we have two layouts. The official WP43S layout. And the C43 layout. Officially neither have gone past vapourware stage.
rudi wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:01 pm
Please don’t take my comments as provocations, I am sincerely trying to help and tell my opinions.
I take them as that - no problem.

I doubt whether either team will commit to any hardware other than proceeding with the first layout.

However, on the C43 sim, look at the KEYS menu. Press the buttons for V43 LT, and V43 RT, and C43 ALT just to see the various other layouts we played with on this list. If you or anyone on this list comes up with a sensible layout variation, I'll stick it in the C43 KEYS menu as a USER mode template so that you can try it out. Just know that for C43, no white key changes are considered as that would require different engineering processes.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

gmac42 wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:41 pm
I, for one, don't really mind having one or two spots to assign stuff in USER mode without masking existing functions. But that's just a thought, not a strong opinion.
Good point.

C43 is full though. We are actually missing a slot or two. I would have loved the || and MOD or even the SF and CF on keys like the WP43S, but we are full.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

Please clarify where I can find the latest firmware version of C43 (as well as the simulator files). The latest reference I could find was by browsing back in this forum, where I found a link from Jaymos himself to a March version.

The new update, to the latest C43 revision can be found here at https://classic43.com/downloads/2022-03 ... 107_15.zip

But by browsing classic43.com I can only find links to one year old "latest releases"?

I have already installed a version from June 28, 2021 yesterday (the latest I could find then) and I must say I like it a lot!
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

RJvM wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:21 am
Please clarify where I can find the latest firmware version of C43 (as well as the simulator files). The latest reference I could find was by browsing back in this forum, where I found a link from Jaymos himself to a March version.

The new update, to the latest C43 revision can be found here at https://classic43.com/downloads/2022-03 ... 107_15.zip

But by browsing classic43.com I can only find links to one year old "latest releases"?

I have already installed a version from June 28, 2021 yesterday (the latest I could find then) and I must say I like it a lot!
The reason that the web site has only old versions, is that I lost the ability to update that page when I upgraded my Mac. My favourite (and only way) to create a nice web site was using iWeb, which died with the old 32 bit OS :roll:.

Rev. 107_15 from March indeed is old. I will make a new (crude) download page this weekend and I will link the latest version (108_00) which I have been preparing during the last week. Rev 108_00 is up to date with the latest layout changes. I will as always link it here on this list as well.

About the new version: I decided to retire the system of publishing both L1 and L42 versions for hardware. For a very long time already, the L42 (DM42 compatible) layout is selectable in the KEYS menu as in USER mode. This will be the way to have the L42 version compatibility going forward. Below follows a picture indicating the DM42 compatible keys in USER mode. See below, or see a larger version here, which also shows the use of the USER mode and non-USER mode \(\Sigma+\) button replacements:
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Clipboard02.png
Clipboard02.png (179.52 KiB) Viewed 1363 times
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

Thanks! Awesome
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

I completed another C43 release, now 108_00 as promised.

I updated the download links on the web site and the new download version is marked in yellow on the download page: here. The web site classic43.com otherwise is not yet updated due to said challenges ;-)

The download includes:
  • the usual C43 cut-down non-qspi version,
  • a new qspi C43 version (which I tested this time),
  • the usual WP43SJM special cut-down non-qspi version of WP43S which starts up in USER mode with DM42 compatible keys and
  • the usual C43 Windows simulator
There are too many changes to list here, including all the usual WP43S changes over the last few months since my last release. Notably, the DRG key changed again:

DRG operation

Angle entry on C43 was revised again. The concept and driving force is to be able to make use of the standard WP43S Reals with angle tags, but try combine that with a more traditional arguably easier UI. The DRG key on the C43 was introduced about 2 years ago and was changed again as follows.

Comments and changes to DRG operation are welcomed and changes are still possible. I summarise operation of angle entry in C43:
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108_00_Mode1.png
108_00_Mode1.png (4.92 KiB) Viewed 1259 times
MODE menu
.

The DRG button as designed now, could be the only button needed for ADM management. For that reason it features prominently on the MODE menu below, as well as on the HOME menu. Additionally it can easily be installed as replacement of the 𝜮+ button.

MODE menu:
  • DEG/RAD/GRAD/MUL𝛑 change the ADM, as WP43S does. This action does not change any register tag, only the ADM as indicated in the status bar.
  • D.MS was added (looong ago) to the above list, with function similar to [d.ms] on WP43S. (Note that [.ms] on C43 is very different to [d.ms] on the WP43S.
  • >>DEG/>>RAD/>>GRAD/>>MUL𝛑/>>D.MS were added long ago to convert the X-Register angle tag to the desired destination, as well as set the ADM to the same destination.
  • DRG converts X-Register only to an angle, of the current ADM, if X contains an untagged Real, or Long or Short Integer.
  • DRG terminates open number entry, to an angle of the current ADM.
  • If X already is a tagged angle: DRG changes the X-Register’s tagged angle to the next in the sequence DEG/RAD/GRAD/MUL𝛑/D.MS. All register tags Y,Z,T,A,B,C,D and the ADM are also set to the same angle tag. Stored registers are not changed.
  • If X contains a complex number, matrix, string or another type, the ADM only (in the status bar) is set to the next in the sequence DEG/RAD/GRAD/MUL𝛑/D.MS. Additionally all register tags in Y,Z,T,A,B,C,D and the ADM are also set to the same (new) ADM. Stored registers are not changed.
Note: In WP43S, (and therefore C43), complex numbers do not have tags and are displayed using the ADM. This may cause a little confusion if not checked. Best to try it out.


HOME menu


The Home menu was also revised a bit, mostly to refine operation and increase usefulness. The image below shows the horizontal arrow to the main HOME menu entry, and shows arrows up and down.
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Screenshot 2022-08-22 at 16.04.42a.png
Screenshot 2022-08-22 at 16.04.42a.png (46.32 KiB) Viewed 1259 times
HOME menu
.
The notable changes are the >>DEG and DRG added. Also, CC was made to feature, for those who prefer the HP35S and WP43S way of entering complex numbers.

As usual, any comments and criticisms welcome.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

Thank you!

I installed the non-QSPI version on my DM42 and tried XEQ 'BEEP' (finishing alpha input with ENTER). The calculator correctly executes the BEEP but then also picks up the (shifted) ENTER keystroke as the COMPLEX function; it seems some key input buffer is not cleared or so. XEQ with other commands does not exhibit this behaviour.
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I tried to search the forum but found only a discussion on flag overview options and some discussion on checkboxes; my question is this: why is the set/clear status of some system flags indicated with checkboxes and of others with subscript 1?
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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RJvM
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by RJvM »

I think I found the answer myself, it seems a numeric system flag status indicates this means the flag is write protected.
Robbert Jan, MSEE, RPN user since 1976 and a collector for many years I now own all the important ones: HP-35, 45, 55, 65, 97, 19, 21, 25, 34, 10-16, 41, 42, 71, 48, 50, Prime, DM41, DM42, WP43, C47, R47; Project 47 team member https://47calc.com
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos »

RJvM wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:51 pm
Thank you!

I installed the non-QSPI version on my DM42 and tried XEQ 'BEEP' (finishing alpha input with ENTER). The calculator correctly executes the BEEP but then also picks up the (shifted) ENTER keystroke as the COMPLEX function; it seems some key input buffer is not cleared or so. XEQ with other commands does not exhibit this behaviour.
Confirmed. On the bug list.

Further confirmation - I tried it on my C43 (non-QSPI) on DM42 without paper template (set to "DM42" keys), and it actually activates f[ENTER] which on that keyboard is X.EDIT. In addition, I tried it on my other C43 with QSPI (running standard C43 keys) which repeats your finding.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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