43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
Dani R.
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:07 am

in the 43, the "#" calls the base change direct input screen, which is 100% compatible in function with 42S BASE. The direct input screen looks different at the moment, but I asked Walter in the other forum to change it to have a menu with HEX OCT DEC BIN shortcut menu which will also look like the 42S then. If he does not create this menu, I will. I give him some time before I do, because I think it is essential for the whole project to have it this way.
Reference_wp:43s_0_12s Page 104 led me to believe that '#' might be a function. But the reference manual is DRAFT.
DM42 SN:00032

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:42 am

Dani R. wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:07 am

in the 43, the "#" calls the base change direct input screen, which is 100% compatible in function with 42S BASE. The direct input screen looks different at the moment, but I asked Walter in the other forum to change it to have a menu with HEX OCT DEC BIN shortcut menu which will also look like the 42S then. If he does not create this menu, I will. I give him some time before I do, because I think it is essential for the whole project to have it this way.
Reference_wp:43s_0_12s Page 104 led me to believe that '#' might be a function. But the reference manual is DRAFT.
Ahhh.

Try the emulator, or the DM42 image. Pressing #, then either the number base (2-16) (or H and D shortcuts) changes the integer to the required number base display.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:50 am

Dani R. wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:55 am
Layout 1: I think you can make the move P.FN to [f][3], PARTS to [g][+], I/O to [f][-] and STK to [g][R/S] without it hurting too much.
Personally, I quite like this part (R/S, 3, -, +) of the new layout2, and I agree that it can actually be like this on both layouts.
I'll give this a thought still before I do it.
Maybe more comments.
Dani R. wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:55 am
Layout 2: Actually it doesn't matter where ALPHA.FN is, maybe there are some functions in this menu which will be used mainly for programs. I plead to leave DROP at [g][ENTER]. Just to delete 'X' you don't need DROP, but if I want to get rid of 'X' and 'Y', but copied 'T' to 'Z' and 'Y' at the same time, I think I'll get used to calling DROP twice.
I actually really like the DROP on the ENTER and will like to keep it there.
I moved it out to keep the alphas together.

I will swap DROP and a.FN again, to have DROP on [g][ENTER] and a.FN on [g7] for the release I am making now.

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:42 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:50 am

I actually really like the DROP on the ENTER and will like to keep it there.
I moved it out to keep the alphas together.

I will swap DROP and a.FN again, to have DROP on [g][ENTER] and a.FN on [g7] for the release I am making now.

J
The latest test firmware 43C_004_2.pgm, that is WP43C release 004 Layout 2.

Layout 2 uses all the DM42 yellow labels. Everything is familiar to the fingers. The exceptions are:

1. [f][0] (SETUP), calls the HOME menu, not SETUP. (HOME menu is also called up with triple shift.)
2. [f][Sigma+] (Sigma-) does not work, as the fraction control sits on Sigma-.

To get back to the DM42 system menu, select SYSTEM, i.e. go to MODE which is on [f][+/-], and press [Up], [f] [f] [FN1].

All the blue labels as per the layout2 (below) are available, but clearly there are no blue labels on the DM42. Use the HOME menu, press [Dn], which will go to three extra screens, listing all the blue labels on the WP34C. In a following post I will show the screens which allow the DM42 to run the WP43C without any template.

http://cocoon-creations.com/download/43C_004_2.pgm.zip

LAYOUT 2 - DM42 STRICT
Image
Last edited by Jaymos on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
TwoWeims
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:29 am
Location: Prescott, AZ

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by TwoWeims » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:36 pm

This is really starting to shape up nicely! I have been lurking here for some time watching your progress.

I would like to offer some help.
I am in the laser engraving business. I have a Laser Cutter, a Direct to Substrate UV Printer, and a DM42.
If you send me a dimensionally accurate image of the keyboard bezel when you get the design finalized I could try to make some custom overlays for the DM42 that would include the blue labels.
DM42 SN: 3682
HP-15C and HP-16C (Bought originally by me in the 80's)
HP-67 and HP-55
HP-48G
MK-52

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:52 pm

TwoWeims wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:36 pm
This is really starting to shape up nicely! I have been lurking here for some time watching your progress.

I would like to offer some help.
I am in the laser engraving business. I have a Laser Cutter, a Direct to Substrate UV Printer, and a DM42.
If you send me a dimensionally accurate image of the keyboard bezel when you get the design finalized I could try to make some custom overlays for the DM42 that would include the blue labels.
Hi

What an amazing idea! No harm in trying! I will be making a dimensionally accurate vector graphics file with the artwork. I like specific fonts to make it look good, but first, as you say, I need to finalise the layout, then I make a graphic file, then you try it.

Currently we have Layout1 which really works great. A few mails back today there was a suggestion for a small change to Layout1 which is not yet made because I focussed to compile the Layout2 test firmware which I sent out earlier.

Then there is Layout2 which I am making so that a person can test the DM42 without having a key template. I found it frustrating to look on a paper print of the blue labels where to find which menu, so I thought of making a layout which will work intuitively on the DM42. Of course a label template can be made for either layouts, but Layout2 can be used without. I am not decided whether Layout2 is good enough to permanently replace Layout1. It will be a pain maintaining both.

TwoWeims, have you loaded it on your DM42 ?


Regards
J
Last edited by Jaymos on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:20 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:42 pm

All the blue labels as per the layout2 (below) are available, but clearly there is no blue labels on the DM42. Use the HOME menu, press [Dn], which will go to three extra screens listing all the blue labels on the WP34C. In a following post I will show the screens which allow the DM42 to run the WP43C without template.
A sketch of how the home screens help navigate on a DM42 without WP43C template (Layout 2).

LAYOUT 2 - DM42 STRICT
Image
Last edited by Jaymos on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

toml_12953
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by toml_12953 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:20 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:42 pm

All the blue labels as per the layout2 (below) are available, but clearly there is no blue labels on the DM42. Use the HOME menu, press [Dn], which will go to three extra screens listing all the blue labels on the WP34C. In a following post I will show the screens which allow the DM42 to run the WP43C without template.
A sketch of how the home screens help navigate on a DM42 without WP43C rtemplace (Layout 2).

LAYOUT 2 - DM42 STRICT
Image
You have functions which are blue on the keyboard listed in a line with a yellow marker (abs, delta%, etc.) Those are blue functions and should never be on the menu line marked as yellow (the middle line) Why have colors at all if you're not going to use them?
Tom L

My father was a man of the cloth. He was a tailor.

DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:56 pm

toml_12953 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:20 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:42 pm

All the blue labels as per the layout2 (below) are available, but clearly there is no blue labels on the DM42. Use the HOME menu, press [Dn], which will go to three extra screens listing all the blue labels on the WP34C. In a following post I will show the screens which allow the DM42 to run the WP43C without template.
A sketch of how the home screens help navigate on a DM42 without WP43C rtemplace (Layout 2).

LAYOUT 2 - DM42 STRICT
You have functions which are blue on the keyboard listed in a line with a yellow marker (abs, delta%, etc.) Those are blue functions and should never be on the menu line marked as yellow (the middle line) Why have colors at all if you're not going to use them?
I have two layouts currently, let me explain the purpose:

Layout1 was devised according to the goals in post 1 of this forum. It is a well considered layout which does not need a change in buttons on the DM42, but only a overlay template for yellow/blue.

As I was testing the firmware on my DM42 I saw that it is VERY difficult to operate WP34C (Layout1) on a bare DM42 with the yellow labels not all aligning. The layout was and is extremely good when you have a template, or when you run the emulator, but without labels not.

I realised that with a few more changes I can make a second Layout2, which works similarly, i.e. no button changes needed and a template for the yellow and blues needed. The BIG difference is that while there is no template on the bare DM42, this Layout2 will have no conflicting yellows on the DM42 keyboard. Even though the blues will still work (ABS, delta%, etc.), if you do not have a template made and installed, you won't know where the blue labels are even though they can work with [g] (or [f][f] to be accurate).

So the point of the additional 3 HOME screens, is to make the blue keys otherwise available, and because the sequence on scfreen is accurate, it also works as a help for you to see where say ABS is, so that next time if you remember you can use [f][f][STO].

At this point the second Layout (in a second firmware) can be seen as an interim solution for those who want to try the WP34C, but don't have an overlay.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 323
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:02 pm

toml_12953 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:20 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:42 pm

All the blue labels as per the layout2 (below) are available, but clearly there is no blue labels on the DM42. Use the HOME menu, press [Dn], which will go to three extra screens listing all the blue labels on the WP34C. In a following post I will show the screens which allow the DM42 to run the WP43C without template.
A sketch of how the home screens help navigate on a DM42 without WP43C rtemplace (Layout 2).

LAYOUT 2 - DM42 STRICT
You have functions which are blue on the keyboard listed in a line with a yellow marker (abs, delta%, etc.) Those are blue functions and should never be on the menu line marked as yellow (the middle line) Why have colors at all if you're not going to use them?
Re-reading your question I realise you are asking something else, i.e. why have the blue labels (from keyboard) duplicate on a menu screen on the yellow line.

The answer is in conjunction with my other answer above, in that the Layout2 firmware assumes you have no blue label printed, and offers the three menu screens duplicating the "missing" functions in all three menu lines, making them accessible to you.

If I would have maintained the blue label only on blue line rule, I would have had 7 single line screens on the blue line only. I chose not to have 7, but 3 where the lot is combined.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Post Reply