WP43 Alternative key layout --> C43

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by H2X »

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm
You could still debate small things like exchanging DROP and FILL, but I couldn't decide for myself if you follow logic (FILL at [g] [ENTER]) or if you follow usability FILL at [f] [x<>y].
Disregarding these concrete examples, if one is to follow rules, I am generally for following the rule which have the fewest exceptions that cannot be justified - grouped, counted, and ordered by how good that justification is.

Can we shift all menus to the right, and all non-menus to the left? If yes, fine - no exceptions, and we're done - but if not? And how well can we adhere to 42S legacy, and how can we justify deviations from that?

I have myself suggested COMPLEX on [ENTER], which I consider an improvement (there's the justification), but following 42S legacy in terms of key but not being consistent in terms of which shift to use needs justifying in my mind - more so that not following the legacy at all.

I propose that logic outweighs usability, because once muscle memory kicks in, we're on autopilot anyway. So whatever is the best help when learning this calculator, or trying to remember if muscle memory fails, is better.

In both cases, what makes the better learning curve? For me, logic is the answer to this question.
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm
I myself was of the opinion that I would prefer a calculator with only one Shift key at any time. But the (intermediate) result is so exciting to me that I can imagine using a calculator with this layout on a daily basis. This reminds me again of the clarity and beauty of a 29C. No, I didn't own a 29C myself.
For me that is the holy grail measure of success. I am not using the WP34S daily...
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm
I think my idea of offering the constants in a list is still good.
Agreed!
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm
The new LASTx function in the main project of course requires a feature request.
Endorsed!
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by inautilus »

On the clarity and beauty of the 29C ... and Holy Grails and such ...
inautilus wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:12 pm
Consider a pared down, cleaner aesthetic. Consider no letter ... at all.

Eliminate any (and all) unnecessary clutter. What needs to be communicated by these keys (their sole purpose) can be achieved more efficiently, indeed more effectively ... by the use colour alone. I propose/contend that this path would not be antithetical to the long respected and appreciated design imperatives of Hewlett Packard. Rather, it would be an homage.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Antoine de Saint-Exupery
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin
Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. »

inautilus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:17 pm
On the clarity and beauty of the 29C ... and Holy Grails and such ...
inautilus wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:12 pm
...
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Antoine de Saint-Exupery
It looks like I was too euphoric. Of course, I still see many things that could be left out. This brings me back to my first postulate of removing things for so long and finding easy to remember menus that no second shift key is needed anymore. I still think the current keyboard layout is better than a 34C.
C47(DM42) SN:00032 WP43 SN:00016
https://47calc.com
H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by H2X »

inautilus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:17 pm
On the clarity and beauty of the 29C ... and Holy Grails and such ...
If you picked up on my mentioning

For me that is the holy grail measure of success. I am not using the WP34S daily...
I was referring to using the calculator daily. I should probably have made that more clear. I do however not disagree with Dani's praise of the 29C, nor Antoine de Saint-Exupery's view on perfection... :D
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by inautilus »

I ... think ... we're on the same page. Maybe I have things clumsily worded in my last post above ... one that I had previously posted on another thread ? Not sure. So, please let me clarify. I had intended to echo your view on clarity and beauty of the 29, and on something so well designed as to be one's daily driver (the Holy Grail).

In other words, it is about the tools you use in the 'shop' ... the ones that are thoughtfully designed, the ones that are well crafted, the ones that are an extension of ourselves, the ones that are valued, trusted and loved ... it is about the ones you reach for every day ...

This is what resonates when beauty, clarity, and Holy Grail are mentioned. It's quite a thing. This is what the 43 is.
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin
H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by H2X »

inautilus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:24 pm
I ... think ... we're on the same page. Maybe I have things clumsily worded in my last post above ... one that I had previously posted on another thread ? Not sure. So, please let me clarify. I had intended to echo your view on clarity and beauty of the 29, and on something so well designed as to be one's daily driver (the Holy Grail).

In other words, it is about the tools you use in the 'shop' ... the ones that are thoughtfully designed, the ones that are well crafted, the ones that are an extension of ourselves, the ones that are valued, trusted and loved ... it is about the ones you reach for every day ...

This is what resonates when beauty, clarity, and Holy Grail are mentioned. It's quite a thing. This is what the 43 is.
Agreed! :-)

BTW, sometimes my reading's clumsy too. English is not my first language.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos »

I did quite a bit tonight.

Most importantly LastX is there and working. Function done, no problem.

Done:

1. HOME: Made the HOME menu scrollable.
2. HOME: Added x! to HOME menu.
3. HOME: Added MODE next to INFO on the HOME menu.
4. Changed RG.ST BT.ST, to RG.V BT.V as a test. Comments please.
5. Made double dots on g menu line, to match the new dots on the keyboard. See pic.
6. Entered the name 'WP43C by Jaymos' in the INFO screen. See pic.
7. Added the triple shift enable/disable, as a switch on MODE: HOME.3. Fully works.
8. Implemented the eRPN en/disable switch. Fully works.
9. Lastx implemented and added on [f] [x<>y] in place of FILL.
10. Placed FILL, DROP & X<>Y in the STK menu, as they were somehow not placed there by the main project.

.
—-
Todo:

201. Fix keyboard key shortcuts on the emulator broken due to layout change

202. Fix Alpha key layout and menus that is broken due to layout change


——
Wish list:

301. Find more math candidates for the HOME menu

302. DONE. Put LastX on HOME menu, if not on button. Could take the place of x! On “L”. Need to make a new function for this.

303. Add SigFig mode as per WP31S, 34S, 34C: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/archive/ ... -3029.html

304. To consider the need for HEX DEC OCT BIN on a soft menu (compare with # operation).

305. DONE. Ideas for a calculator name. Maybe WP43C. C for classic of course, and it fits into the model names/numbers. Picked WP43C.

306. DONE. Add Name and version number etc. in INFO.

---
To re-consider:

401. Consider changing back to yellow for MODE, DISP & CLR

402. Consider FILL and STK swap back to R< and >P

403. NEW: Please consider the RG.V BT.V. I’m not convinced it is the best yet.

404. NEW: Consider if x! needs to be removed to make [f] CHS is available.

405. NEW: Consider if we bring INFO back to a key, belonging next to MODE, in place of x! on [f] CHS.


—-
Remember for actual calc layout:

501. “Lx” for Last x above L

502. Yellow and blue dots above shift button


Image

Image


I could not easily convince the photo app on the phone to make PNG files from the emulator photo. It really is not important to me to replace the JPG with PNG even though I understand the clarity will be better.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by inautilus »

Wow!!! Brilliant. This layout is above and beyond. Sublime !
It's now hard to imagine it any other way ...
Last edited by inautilus on Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin
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inautilus
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by inautilus »

Possible tweak: The letters A-Z in white seem to get lost in the forest. Should their size be increased ... maybe 20% ? Also, a colour change might help too in making them easier to visually lock on to. Perhaps some deep shade of red ...
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos »

inautilus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:08 am
Possible tweak: The letters A-Z in white seem to get lost in the forest. Should their size be increased ... maybe 20% ? Also, a colour change might help too in making them easier to visually lock on to. Perhaps some deep shade of red ...
Into my low priority todo list. My intuition kicks against red but I will see if their contrast can improve on the emulator.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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