Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
toml_12953
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by toml_12953 »

rprosperi wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:31 pm
I agree that it is sometimes, even if rare, useful to have need for more than 4 stack levels, and resources in the 43S plentiful, so it makes sense to have this option, though it does slightly complicate the 43S ecosystem as when one shares a program it must be clearly stated that 8-level stack mode must be enabled. Using such a program in the wrong mode will likely produce an unexpected error (best case) or inaccurate results with no warning (worst case).

What is far less clear is how one can conclude Americans can somehow all be satisfied with 4-levels, while non-Americans may sometimes need more? And this is especially odd in a thread debate among primarily non-Americans. Seems like some prejudice has been brought to the topic for no good reason, and it really has no place here. If I'm mistaken, and there is evidence of nation-dependent preference for number of stack-levels, it really should be shared before jumping to conclusions. 8-)
Maybe many Americans grew up using the HP-35, 45, 55, or 65 which only had four levels so we're used to the old way of doing things.
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rprosperi
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by rprosperi »

Walter wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:53 pm
That was a joke for the initiated, coming from the fact that US-Americans are usually content with a confidence level of 95%, while people elsewhere are used to 99% (in statistics).

Sorry for making complicated jokes. Won't do it too often. And yes, I hate having to explain jokes.
This is news to me. Again, if there is evidence of nation-dependent contentment with one confidence level vs. another nation, it really should be shared before making such rash, and otherwise unsubstantiated statements Walter. Otherwise it's purely prejudice and offensive, and not taken by most readers (US or otherwise) as a joke.

I know, I know... don't fee the troll... but something has to be said, else this goes unchecked and will happen again and again.
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Walter
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Walter »

Sorry, these 95% taken for significance and other crucial statistical decisions are directly linked to the USA. Experienced and heard that many times in my professional life. OTOH, at least in Germany statisticians alway stressed they use 99% for comparable processes. Look at the automotive industry, which (US-dominated) employs 95%, etc.
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vgoudreault
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by vgoudreault »

Wouldn't this warrant the presence of an optional flag in the settings that could report "stack overflow" if a value is pushed out of stack by the addition of a new one?
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akaTB
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by akaTB »

Walter wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:17 pm
Sorry, these 95% taken for significance and other crucial statistical decisions are directly linked to the USA. Experienced and heard that many times in my professional life. OTOH, at least in Germany statisticians alway stressed they use 99% for comparable processes. Look at the automotive industry, which (US-dominated) employs 95%, etc.
Wouldn't this warrant the presence of an optional "95-99" flag in the settings that could report "Hic sunt leones" whatever its setting?

;)
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by EM41 »

Oh dear, you have also to include the 68 % flag for 1 sigma confidence, used in social and other fake sciences.
But in engineering you usually use 2 sigma (95 %) and in critical applications such as medical and aeronautical applications 3 sigma (99,7 %).
Depends what profession you are coming from, its not typical US or EU.
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Walter
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Walter »

Folks, now we've to clear the chaos a bit:
  1. Multiples of sigma are the agreed way of indicating uncertainties in science. 1 sigma is generally used from physics to psychology. Yes, it corresponds to only 68%, but as long as you know 1 sigma, you can determine 2 or 3 sigma most easily if you want. Particle physicists at CERN are known to require 5 sigma or even more before publishing the discoery of a new particle, but that's extreme.
    .
  2. 95%, 99%, or 99.9% are common confidence limits or significance levels in statistics. What level is called significant may depend on country and industry. It is traditionally set to 95% in the USA. Looking at the DQS (the German quality institution, known in the USA as well), 99% are THE level for significance. Car industry is known to work with 95%.
    .
  3. Regarding a stack-overflow flag: Please forget it. It will never work since there are useful situations where you want all stack levels filled. Was discussed on this forum more than once.
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dalremnei
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dalremnei »

With the code memory you used implementing a stack overflow flag, you could just implement RPL instead and be done with pointless historical limitations. ;)
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akaTB
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by akaTB »

dalremnei wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:23 pm
With the code memory you used implementing a stack overflow flag, you could just implement RPL instead and be done with pointless historical limitations. ;)
RePeLlent was and RePeLlent will stay. :P
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dalremnei
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dalremnei »

What's even considered to be wrong with RPL/NSTK mode? It behaves much more like a real-life stack of objects or a stack in computing science than 4STK mode does. It means you can just evaluate whatever you want, no matter how complex, without having to worry about storing intermediate values to memory or factoring things out like you'd need to with an algebraic calculator. With calculators like the DM42 that display multiple lines of the stack, it both makes the display look nicer (from lacking zeroes/T-values above the current X value) and get used more efficiently (the top of the display in 4STK mode isn't used unless you make the font really big).

I have no nostalgia for old HP calculators, and don't see why a newcomer to RPN would pick a 4STK/8STK calculator over NSTK. It's just an obsolete limitation, much like 24FPS in film and QWERTY in computer keyboards.
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