Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
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dalremnei
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dalremnei »

Florian wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:04 am
With the HP42S we are lucky to at least get the commands in human readable form. I imaging that those models that due to hardware limitations still required to be programmed and read in hex also had quite an interesting learning curve...
I own a 12C and DM16L. Both calculators don't display their program steps in "Hex", but instead use a co-ordinate system where 43 means 4 down 3 across. Number keys are given their literal values. The 16L is capable of jumping to labels and has subroutine support, making it far easier to program without a pen and paper than the 12C. The 12C is almost impossible to program for anything complex unless you're willing to write out your program steps beforehand to work out jump addresses and such. The recommended way HP wants you to change programs you've already keyed in is jumping down to code after the program, and jumping back in, as a patch, because the 12C cannot move code down memory when inserting operations, it can only overwrite.

It's really not as bad as it sounds, it's a bit like programming a computer that only has a machine language monitor.
SwissMicros DM42, DM16L, HP 12c Platinum, CASIO fx-9750gii, fx-991ex classwiz, fx-CG50, CA-53W-1ER, TEXET fx1500, TI nspire CX II-T
Florian
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Florian »

dalremnei wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:05 pm
I own a 12C and DM16L. Both calculators don't display their program steps in "Hex", but instead use a co-ordinate system where 43 means 4 down 3 across. Number keys are given their literal values.
Thank you for the clarifications. Till now I thought that this is really some kind of hex code as in assembler programming. So it is more like a 2D lookup-table. Well, I guess the principle is the same, just with less letters. I will happily leave these calculators to the hard-core fans then, though I do admit it is probably a good learning experience. :)
rprosperi
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by rprosperi »

Florian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:32 am
dalremnei wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:05 pm
I own a 12C and DM16L. Both calculators don't display their program steps in "Hex", but instead use a co-ordinate system where 43 means 4 down 3 across. Number keys are given their literal values.
Thank you for the clarifications. Till now I thought that this is really some kind of hex code as in assembler programming. So it is more like a 2D lookup-table. Well, I guess the principle is the same, just with less letters. I will happily leave these calculators to the hard-core fans then, though I do admit it is probably a good learning experience. :)
It's much simpler than you think, it's not really a lookup table, the coordinates for each step are simply those of the key you press; for example on the 16C, if you press X<>Y (which is the 4th key in the 3rd row,) in program mode, it inserts the code 34. So when you later look at a program, you examine the 2-digit code NM, and then look for the Mth key over in the Nth row of keys. Which is actually far easier to do than explain. It's really very simple.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
Florian
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Florian »

rprosperi wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:15 am
It's much simpler than you think, it's not really a lookup table, the coordinates for each step are simply those of the key you press; for example on the 16C, if you press X<>Y (which is the 4th key in the 3rd row,) in program mode, it inserts the code 34. So when you later look at a program, you examine the 2-digit code NM, and then look for the Mth key over in the Nth row of keys. Which is actually far easier to do than explain. It's really very simple.
Doh, that's indeed simple. So how do you represent shifted functions? Or is pressing the shift key a separate instruction (which would actually be quite true to the concept of keystroke programming...)?

I guess we're getting off-topic here. Sorry about that. :D
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dalremnei
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dalremnei »

Modifier keys are always combined on the voyager calculators, but not all systems do it like that.
SwissMicros DM42, DM16L, HP 12c Platinum, CASIO fx-9750gii, fx-991ex classwiz, fx-CG50, CA-53W-1ER, TEXET fx1500, TI nspire CX II-T
toml_12953
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by toml_12953 »

Florian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:27 am
rprosperi wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:15 am
It's much simpler than you think, it's not really a lookup table, the coordinates for each step are simply those of the key you press; for example on the 16C, if you press X<>Y (which is the 4th key in the 3rd row,) in program mode, it inserts the code 34. So when you later look at a program, you examine the 2-digit code NM, and then look for the Mth key over in the Nth row of keys. Which is actually far easier to do than explain. It's really very simple.
Doh, that's indeed simple. So how do you represent shifted functions? Or is pressing the shift key a separate instruction (which would actually be quite true to the concept of keystroke programming...)?

I guess we're getting off-topic here. Sorry about that. :D
The TI-58/59 added 5 to the column position to indicate a shifted function. The code for square root was 34 (3rd row, 4th column) shift square root (cos) was represented by 39. The row number was never incremented. The code for the 1/x key was 35 but shifted 1/x (tan) was 30.
Tom L

Some people call me inept but I'm as ept as anybody!
DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM41X SN: 00506 (Shipping)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)
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